A much needed, but probably rote, discussion on Vulcan emotions in Star Trek

[timepiececlock]

I feel like I can't write Spock's POV until I get this, and there's something fundamental about the whole thing that is escaping me.



So, in the movie, young Spock talks about a Kolinar ceremony to "purge all emotion". I looked it up and it seems TOS Spock almost took it in the first movie (the only one I haven't seen), but didn't. We know the new Spock didn't, because he joined Starfleet instead. So... he still has all his emotions. He's clearly repressed them in an unhealthy way that is different from the other Spock, and other Vulcans. TOS Spock would never have the kind of anger management problem / burst of blind rage that this Spock had. Also, he was a sensitive kid, who seemed only to learn to fake stoicism instead of actually being emotionless. This Spock is seething with emotion he doesn't express...blame the actor ZQ for staring soulfully into the camera, but it's true. So in fact, writing Spock himself isn't exactly the problem. He's just a really repressed guy, fine.

It's all the other Vulcans I don't understand. And in order to understand Spock's goals of being Vulcanish, I've got to understand what he was TRYING to be.

In short... I don't get the whole emotionless religion thing. Is the idea to have no emotion affect your decisions at all, almost a Jedi thing but worse? To be without earthly attachment?... Or is it to accept and control the emotions, acknowledging them while outwardly stifling them so no one knows what's actually driving you? This is an important distinction, because one is an absence of emotional motivation, and one is just being super reserved in public.

If the goal is to reach a mental state where they have no emotions... is Sarek atypical for loving his wife? Is nuSpock a total failure at being a good little Vulcan?

I know what they say in the movie, about how Vulcans actually feel very deeply, but that seems to directly contradict with everything else I've read about it, and with the whole religion of emotionlessness. I especially don't get what that means for, like, daily life.

Do they only avoid anger/fear/sadness/pride/humor/joy, etc?

Do they feel CONFUSION?

What about the smaller emotions? Like curiosity, ambivalence, vanity, nostalgia, cynicism? Excitement, thankfulness, lethargy?

Self-confidence?

How do they choose what color of towels they buy at the store? How do they know if they prefer broccoli over spinach? Blue pen or black pen? How do they decide between jelly donut and sprinkled?

Without emotion, how do you even operate in a world where you're constantly forced to make little decisions that have no logical answer, but become an expression of your tastes and preferences? ...preferences come from the emotion of pleasure/affection, and irritation/dissatisfaction.

But they can't have a favorite color, because THEY HAVE NO EMOTIONS!

Or they just pretend?

I'm confused.

I'm especially confused because Older Spock, Spock from the movies 1-6, is not emotionless that I remember. He's pretty stoic, sure, but he obviously loves the crew and his BFF Jim, and he obviously cares deeply about the Federation's safety. If I were going to write about Spock Prime, I'd just write about him as this pleasant, wise old guy who stays calm in almost anything but has a secret preference for Earth carrots and misses his old friend Jim Kirk. The idea that he's supposed to emotionless because Vulcans are, would never enter into my concept of the character at all. I'd write him as a fully empathic character, with complete active range of emotions even if he doesn't voice them very often.

Would that be, like, the completely WRONG reading of what his character is meant to be? Is this the noobie failure equivalent of assuming that hobbits are all short because they don't have domesticated cows so none of them took enough calcium as a child?

Did I miss the memo at the beginning of everything that said to all the fans, "This is what the Vulcan shit is all about?" My questions can be summarized thus:

1. What is this Vulcan shit about?
2. What does that mean for Old TOS Spock?
3. What does that mean for new AU Spock? [as of the end of the movie]
4. Are either Spocks striving to be more or less of this philosophy?

cross-linked to spock_uhura

Comments

[igrockspock.livejournal.com]

Is the idea to have no emotion affect your decisions at all, almost a Jedi thing but worse? To be without earthly attachment?... Or is it to accept and control the emotions, acknowledging them while outwardly stifling them so no one knows what's actually driving you?

This is my vision: your emotions never go away. They flow underneath all of your decisions like a river. You know they are there, but you choose not to act on them. While humans' response to emotion is to try to satisfy them, Vulcans' response is always to seek serenity in logic instead. I don't think it's just about "outwardly stifling" them to keep up appearances because I don't think Vulcans want to be driven by emotion at all - they want to be driven by logic. As they become better disciples of logic, the amount of emotion they experience diminishes and therefore becomes easier to control, maybe even unnoticeable -- kind of like the difference between choosing not to scratch a hideously itchy case of chicken pox that's spread all over your body vs. the difference between choosing not to scratch a single mosquito bite that's healing anyway. In my mind, that's what Spock is aiming for, but it's unattainable for him because he is partly human.

That said, I don't think emotion can be avoided entirely. I think personal inclination, which is a kind of muted emotion, plays a role in decision-making, even if it is a low priority. For example, I imagine choosing a career is like this:
1. What do I have an aptitude for?
2. Are there viable job prospects in these fields?
3. If not, is my aptitude so strong that I would survive a competitive job environment?
4. If I am equally suited to several jobs, each of which has equally good job prospects, which would I most like to do?

How do they choose what color of towels they buy at the store? How do they know if they prefer broccoli over spinach? Blue pen or black pen? How do they decide between jelly donut and sprinkled?

Okay, this brings out my debate coach/philosophy student side, but anyway...there's this moral philosopher Kant who says that you can never, ever consider consequences when you make decisions. (little Spock actually quotes him in the movie, by the way, so maybe I'm not being psycho in bringing him up.) Consequences are unpredictable and subject to our individual evaluation of their desirability, therefore, if we make moral decisions based on them, we will live in a society with no principles. Instead, he wants us to use logic to create a set of inviolable moral principles by searching for actions whose rationale contains no logical contradictions. BUT he has one important exception for the rule: when morality is not at stake, you're free to consider consequences, like when you decide what shoes you want to wear.

How does this apply to Vulcans? I imagine that if it's a very small decision with no logical consequences either way, you can follow your personal inclination. The difference is that you wouldn't feel pissed off or dissatisfied if you really prefer blue pens but the store is out.

However, I also think that Vulcan society would have fewer of these miniscule choices. For example, instead of making bathroom towels in every color of the rainbow, stores would sell towels in the shades of whatever natural dyes are easily obtained in the area. It's not logical for anyone to devote their interest to searching for purple dye on a planet that's mostly red, figuring out how to ship it across the world, cleaning harmful chemical dyes from the river, etc. etc.

I also think it's important to note that a lot of these choices seem driven by a desire for serenity. If you just hear "Vulcans have no emotions," you might expect every building on the planet to be a grey concrete cubicle. Instead, all the buildings we see there are spacious and beautiful. I think the goal is to surround yourself with this restrained elegance and beauty that harmonizes with your natural surroundings and thereby soothes your emotions.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

DIE KANT DIE that was completely unnecessary but DIE KANT DIE.

I do love what everyone's saying about how Vulcan's make day-to-day decisions though. Oh Vulcans. ♥

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I approve of the use of my journal to passionately declare posthumous extra death for unpopular (and popular) philosophers!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Thank you for replying, and for explaining your perspective on it so clearly. I see what you mean about inclinations and prudence affecting the small decisions.

I'm not sure if Kant sounds like someone I'd agree with, though. >D