timepiececlock | HELP! Epic songs for epic kisses. Ballady whatever.

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HELP! Epic songs for epic kisses. Ballady whatever.

I am trying to write a fanfic where it involves an epic make-out moment, and... I don't know what to listen to!

Music is VITAL to my writing process. And all I can seem to find to listen to on my comp is break-up songs! ARGH!

I need some quick recs. Something sweeping. Romantic. Swooning. Swooping. Other cleaning & vertical movement metaphors, I don't know. I'm not asking for links, just names I can play from youtube or something. Anything to jolt my brain into the right sphere of sappy romantic thinking! They can be totally mainstream, too. I don't discriminate in my pop.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllppppppppppppppppppp!

ETA: The pairing I'm trying to write for is Uhura/Spock, if that helps.

ETA 3: 1. You guys are so thoughtful for responding! 2. I don't think my romantic vernacular matches everyone else's, apparently. I should figure out how to fix that. To clarify my confusing and incomprehensible request above: Not slow songs, because slow songs tend to be sad even if they are romantic and my brain thinks sweeping/swooning/epic = big music and energy. Seventy-six bloody trombones.

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Sailor Moon was your first superhero?? What about She-Ra?? Unless you made up She-Ra (and I wouldn't be surprised.) The only superhero shows I recall watching before Sailor Moon are the Justice League (and there were so many superheroes that I don't remember nor care for them) and the Powerpuff Girls.

I guess She-Ra trumps SM, heh. You're absolutely right, because I watched her when I was 3-6. But it was so long ago, I barely remember it. I guess I don't really categorize her in my head as a "superhero" in the costumed sense, more like a fantasy hero, and one from my earliest memories, at that. But in terms of costumed superheroes who fight evil on the city streets, Sailor Moon was definitely the first superhero I was a fan of. 7th grade, I believe. =)

I read the first arc in the manga, but never beyond that. I have seen all the shows, even the fifth arc in subtitled, but that was nearly 10 years ago so I've forgotten much of it. My first fanfic reading experience was simultaneously discovering Sailor Moon and X Files fanfic the same week.

It was interesting how Sailor Moon - though plainly the superhero with the strongest magical powers - would not have been nearly as successful independently, as opposed to most American superheroes. It's more realistic and *definitely* more interesting. Her strengths were the magical powers and her ability to inspire and unify people; her groupmates had their own unique abilities to make up for her weaknesses. The only other show I can think of with a hero who vocally acknowledges his dependence on his crew is probably One Piece, that anime about pirates.

Definitely. I loved Sailor Moon even while my youthful teenage feminist mind bemoaned the fact that she needed Tuxedo Mask or the Sailor Scouts to do 90% of the fighting and rescuing until she used the big gun at the end. Once I accepted that she was just that one character out of five (and helpfully had four amazingly powerful and fierce female characters to contrast), I appreciated her for the sheer amount of crap she endured and that 'kindness' thing that anime heroines are revered for. Since it was my first anime, I wasn't jaded yet to the concept of having a female character idolized for her heart and passivity, rather, it was a new and unique way of viewing the character as a heroic person.

As bad as the show was sometimes, as repetitive and cheesy and poorly animated, I think I loved it as a teen because never before had I seen a show where the girl was the superhero, the destined savior of the universe, and she had a team of warriors who were also girls. And they were best friends! I can't think of anything about that which isn't what teen girls want the most: good friendships, self-confidence, believing in yourself, defending your friends who fight beside you, helping save those who can't defend themselves. It's everything that boys always got from their comic book heroes but which I had never, ever seen before.

When I started watching Buffy a few years later, near the end of high school, it was very similar in a way, because the friendship thing was equally important to Buffy. But it wasn't quite the same, because it wasn't all girls (even SM's mentor Luna was female!), and because they weren't an equal group like the Sailor Soldiers were. There was always that clear dividing line between Buffy and her friends as to who was chosen by destiny and who was the help.

I'm trying to outline an original superhero story right now, in no small part inspired by both those shows, because I don't think there's enough stories about young female superheroes out there. Magical girls? Yes. Psychic girls? Yes. But actual superhero girls? Not nearly. One of the questions I'm still trying to work through is whether I want her friends to be helpers like in Buffy or fellow heroes like in comics and SM. I'm thinking I might end up combining the two, somehow.

MWAHAHA, Tuxedo Mask - I didn't watch nearly as much of Sailor Moon as you did (just whatever I could catch every Saturday during marathons) but what I remember most about him was how little he could do for Serena and his complex about it. I think he powered up eventually, as I remember a quartet of ghostly moon-life advisors, but yep, that was the first time I'd seen a male fictional character weaker than the woman he wanted to defend, and it was so satisfying.

Lately, I've been reading and watching more series with strong-willed, talented female characters who are NOT the moral centers, but there are so many whose strengths are intelligence-based and almost none with stengths that are physical-strength-or-magical-power-based. It's understandable because, generally, women are physically weaker, but when magical powers are involved, there's no excuse. >< I did find an exception, though: the manga Gokusen, in which the female protagonist, a high school teacher raised by the yakuza, is the physically strongest character in the show. When she runs off to save her dumb students from thugs, her male love interest always follows, convinced that he has to be there to save her from trouble, and ends up being saved by her in the process. I wouldn't really recommend the series, but I do wish there'd be more female heroines who can fight like men.

One of the questions I'm still trying to work through is whether I want her friends to be helpers like in Buffy or fellow heroes like in comics and SM. I'm thinking I might end up combining the two, somehow.

I haven't seen Buffy (TOO EPIC TO START? Internet-less vacation in a month ><) or even all of Sailor Moon, so my comment might not be particularly credible, but I can tell you what's worked for me recently (and for TONS of its fans, apparently.) In One Piece, Luffy's crewmembers are all separately developed characters who subordinated themselves to him without surrendering their own goals. One example is Nami, the navigator and cartographer, whose dream is to create a map of the entire world; what better way to do it than to attach herself to the Pirate King? Every single member is given their own backstory and history, their own set of family members or surrogate family (to leave behind), and their own dream, even if it means that Oda-sensei has to provide BOATLOADS OF FLASHBACKS for them and writes a heck of a lot for each. You get the impression that while they're invincible as a group, they're going to split up one day and pursue their own separate futures, and you can imagine one character without the other. They're all developed outside of the context of the show's initial premise, and during adventures, it's pretty common to see them splitting up to do their own thing.

I don't recall seeing that often, characters in a team of heroes constantly enjoying adventures alone or in smaller groups. I've always seen that if there's a heroic main character, the side characters aren't developed as well as he is, and so their "personalities" become nothing more than a set of set of a gimmicks (this one is the main character's rival, and he's a pervert; this one is his love interest, and she's accident-prone but kind). But in One Piece, a lot of the crewmembers' backstories are far more complex than Luffy's, which would explain why he's so carefree while some of the others are pretty jaded.

Of course, because of the nature of a pirate crew and the assignment of roles (cook, navigator, doctor, etc), it's easier to distinguish them as separate heroes in their own fields, but it isn't only their abilities that are distinct; it's their personalities and goals, and how the cook's relationship with the swordsman is different from his relationship with the navigator, and that sort of thing.

(maxed out character count, eeps)

Of course, this is probably the reason Oda's series is so damn LONG (403 episodes, and counting) but I'll be damned if it isn't quality every step of the way. I stopped watching Naruto at 140 and Naruto Shippuden at 30, and yet watch and rewatch One Piece episodes as if Oda would keel over if I stopped. In any case! Umm, it might mean that you'd have to write a LOT, but I think it'd be most interesting if you treated the superheroes in a similar manner - some tension between groupmembers, some leaving and returning, subordinates only on the surface. They'd be like Legoes; you could deconstruct the group and reconstruct them into something more interesting than the last, over and over and over again.

What makes his treatment of each character as individuals so interesting is that their goals clash occasionally, and as a writer, you can squeeze a HELL lot of excitement, drama, and development out of that. (They disagree over the treatment of the ship; one tries to leave to fulfill a past debt; that sort of thing.) Anyway, I digressed (... a lot...) A lot of fans and I attribute One Piece's success (bestselling manga in existence, it beat Dragon Ball!) to its centralized-but-decentralized style of character development. I mean, the protagonist still brought everyone together, and, gradually, out of sheer love, everyone came to view his dream as their dream, but they're working with him, not under him, as I think a character vocalized once. In direct context of your issue, then I suppose they are "fellow heroes" but to a farther extent than those in SM - different angst-buttons, different reasons for joining the heroine.

you treated the superheroes in a similar manner - some tension between groupmembers, some leaving and returning, subordinates only on the surface. They'd be like Legoes; you could deconstruct the group and reconstruct them into something more interesting than the last, over and over and over again.

I'm pretty sure what you just described is the X Men and most comic book history of superhero teams. EXACTLY. Characters come and go, leave and return, are enemies one adventure and allies the next. The superhero genre is so huge for exactly that reason--popular side characters get their own series and branch off, then return again. Conflicting goals, different relationships within the team.

I've always seen that if there's a heroic main character, the side characters aren't developed as well as he is, and so their "personalities" become nothing more than a set of set of a gimmicks (this one is the main character's rival, and he's a pervert; this one is his love interest, and she's accident-prone but kind).

I definitely want to avoid that. I've no interest in creating a "five man band" set up or an anime-style set up of "The loud perky one, the taciturn tough one, the femme one, the pervy one."

but I can tell you what's worked for me recently (and for TONS of its fans, apparently.) In One Piece, Luffy's crewmembers are all separately developed characters who subordinated themselves to him without surrendering their own goals.

It's certainly something I will be keeping in mind. I think there's a challenge in every story to have the supporting characters be whole and developed in their own right, protagonists of their own universes that happen to coincide with the main person's.

In what I'm thinking of, there's only one powered person in the first arc, and while its mostly her story, the other characters would be active agents within the universe. I've also realized that while having *everyone* have powers is a bad idea because you run into the trouble Heroes suffers from, if I want a team aspect, the other members have have some level of equality with the main character. I am thinking also that the main character (her name is Renata), while the only powered person at first, doesn't have any superiority over the other characters (unlike Sailor Moon, chosen leader), so that when other superpowers come into play, she's not automatically in charge or the leader.

In fact, in outlining a general thread of story this week, I had planned to have one of the characters die in self-sacrifice in the end of the second arc, but I'm instead finding I like her too much and would be loathe to give her up, even to a Big Damn Hero moment. So I'll probably only kind-of kill her, and not have it be permanent.

re: superhero comics

Ack, my ignorance is showing. I haven't ever been interested in American superhero comics because they just... seem so exclusive to guys, you know? So few ladies, and the ones who are there are either Token Female Heroes or damsels in distress - not to mention that the guys are drawn with ludicrously huge pecs that it's hard to stomach. But yeah, I think I'm at least vaguely aware of that dynamic, with the Justice League of heroes that each have their own separate shows and occasionally convene. I think the Strawhat Crew in One Piece are a little more coherent, though, in that eventually, their friendships allow their dreams to fall into each other, so that, in the end, each one would willingly sacrifice themselves for the other. Of course, they all start off disconnected, and the journey from that point to where the crew is now is the interesting part.

So I'll probably only kind-of kill her, and not have it be permanent.

You could also sacrifice parts of her instead of all of her - blind her or something like that. Something that would be emotionally damaging enough to make it a sacrifice, but yeah, not irreversible (blindness/limb-surrendering SHOULD be irreversible, but manga has shown me otherwise.)

I am thinking also that the main character (her name is Renata), while the only powered person at first, doesn't have any superiority over the other characters (unlike Sailor Moon, chosen leader), so that when other superpowers come into play, she's not automatically in charge or the leader.

Super cool! This should leave room for power-plays. OH MAN, power-plays between equally badass women - can I think of anything besides Sailor Moon that features such a thing? One example I can recall involves stealing boys' heart - yeah, no. And then there's Princess Tutu, which involves stealing boys' hearts but in such a different way, and of course, that power-play carries a million other significances. Political power-plays... ehh, I can think of another manga but its sexual politics actually suck, so never mind. AND THEN XENA! Oh, Xena. I HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND WATCH ALL OF XENA AND BUFFY, I MUST.

How are you updating your story, and where? Is it for Nanowrimo, or will it be done in a Nanowrimo-esque way? Is it completely original fic?

I've absorbed my info of American comics from my flist, from the major movies, and from general pop culture osmosis.

You could also sacrifice parts of her instead of all of her - blind her or something like that. Something that would be emotionally damaging enough to make it a sacrifice, but yeah, not irreversible (blindness/limb-surrendering SHOULD be irreversible, but manga has shown me otherwise.)

Considering the character is a young black female character, I'm pretty sure I'd get blown to hell in the feedback if I made her blind or crippled, too, LOL. But of course if something major happened, it would have aftereffects and her character would change because of it.

OH MAN, power-plays between equally badass women - can I think of anything besides Sailor Moon that features such a thing? One example I can recall involves stealing boys' heart - yeah, no.

So not going to be the thing here =D Though I did promise

irrel (my wonderful sounding board) that I would write for the possibility of multiple shipping, heh. But I plan to have lots of dynamic exchange, and by having the two help Renata when she gets her powers, they'll already have learned things and know how THEY want to handle stuff when it happens to them. Make their own mistakes, so to speak. But also go into the whole thing with a core of helpfulness and cooperation. One thing that I see done in anime all the time that never happened in my core group of friends as a teen was this competition or "friends despite rivalry." I know some people operate their relationships like that, but I never did. I've never gotten into "catfights" or "bitchfights" or "hated my best friend even while I think she's my best friend" or whatever it is guys have told me they think female friends always do to each other. Hell, I have an older sibling to for that! My friends are my friends because I want someone around that I don't fight with. Still, when dangerous circumstances occur, sometimes conflict can still arise as people grow and change. =D

And then there's Princess Tutu, which involves stealing boys' hearts but in such a different way, and of course, that power-play carries a million other significances.

The thing I love about PT is that if it were any other anime, Mytho would be female and Kraehe and Tutu would be male characters. Looking at the story structure and the roles of the characters as they move through the story...it stuns me. For a show that involves girls dancing their love in tutus, it's one of the most feminist series I've ever seen. Ahiru and Fakir's partnership is as solid as I imagine Katara and Zuko's could be.

One thing that I see done in anime all the time that never happened in my core group of friends as a teen was this competition or "friends despite rivalry."

Hmmm, you're right; it's a trope we see in anime but don't really find nearly as frequently in Western media. One of my best friends and I did meet each other this way; I wouldn't have called it "rivalry," but when we first met, we knew we disliked each other and that was that (I was a goody-two-shoes back then, and she was a bully.) We were thrown together enough times, though, that we bonded despite our initial feelings, and at that point, we realized how compatible we are. "Catfights" or "bitchfights" - ugh, I hate how what can be considered a complex relationship between guys is suddenly phrased so offensively when it refers to women, as if we're all wild, irrational beings. I can assure you that she and I didn't have "bitchfights" nor use gossip behind one another's backs as a weapon; if I didn't like her, I told her. Nothing particularly "feminine" and wily about that.

re: Princess Tutu

To be fair, the guys did a tremendous amount of dancing in leotards. :P But yes, yes, yes to everything you said! Kraehe and Tutu would fulfill the role of "knights" and Mytho would, of course, be the moral center, as the princesses tend to be, and Fakir the dude would continue being one of the jealous and clingy characters, and in this case, I'm so relieved that these flaws aren't restricted to women because, in reality, they're not.

You must watch Buffy! I would be dying to know where your shipping feeling goes when you watch it. There's two main possibilities: the Bad Boyfriend who broods and guards you from a distance with cryptic advice but kisses really freaking well and loves you completely, or the Bad Boyfriend who takes you to play drunken kitten poker and has crazy hot sex and always has your back and loves you completely. Both solid choices! (but some more solid than others, LOL.)

How are you updating your story, and where? Is it for Nanowrimo, or will it be done in a Nanowrimo-esque way? Is it completely original fic?

I haven't written any yet--no, that's a lie. I wrote 3 lines of dialogue with a vagina joke. But really, I haven't started yet. I'm trying to work out the parameters of what I want the story to be, so I'm writing a lot of notes about characters, symbols, relationships. I'll probably try the actual writing when I feel like I have a good idea of the main characters and what they want. I may need a giant story wall or something, LOL, to chart it out.

It's completely original, yes. I was thinking about my enjoyment of the recent superhero movies, and about how the only superheroes I've ever really liked were Buffy and Sailor Moon, and how I'd like to see more shows like that. So I decided I'd create my own superhero, written by a woman for a general audience. Plus, I was feeling I needed to start writing something original already or I'd go crazy.

I'm treating it like fic, because fic doesn't scare me. Irrel's helping with that because I talk to her about it as if it were fanfic. With fic, I have to know about the characters before hand. A starting place. Likewise, I'm trying to create a starting place right now in my head and in my notes. Certain rules about the verse, and rules about the characters. Basic profiles, personal ticks, etc. I've heard that outlining is a bad idea, but I've often outlined fanfic, and I can't operate on a blank slate. I get overwhelmed.

Oooh, I already know which of the two sounds like more fun. "Guards from the distance with cryptic advice" - he'd have to try a little harder, is all I'm saying.

Story wall! Those are always fun. Hmmm, I dunno, I find outlining DOES help; the only thing about it that I can imagine needs warning is potential inflexiblity - new ideas that would need fitting, you know. Plus, outlines help to eliminate plot holes in advance; before I started outlining, I once wrote a character as 12 years old and then became so caught up in my new, new ideas that I ended up showing her in a 16-year-old flashback. O-oops.

Wouldn't it be cool if you started a new trend? It's about damn time that girls had more fictional women to look up to than Disney princesses (maybe this is why Sailor Moon became so popular?)

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HELP! Epic songs for epic kisses. Ballady whatever.

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REALLY long ramble in here about my ideal superhero crew

errm, crew ramble pt. 2

pt. 3 that was supposed to be part of pt. 2, left it out by mistake

Re: errm, crew ramble pt. 2

Re: errm, crew ramble pt. 2

my ramble 1

sorry about the delay; came down with the flu... swine flu?

my ramble 2

Re: my ramble 2