timepiececlock (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timepiececlock) wrote2002-11-13 09:04 am
timepiececlock) wrote2002-11-13 09:04 am
Conversations With Dead People
Buffy...
Ok. I'm just gonna comment here first with my own untainted thoughts (finished it ten minutes ago), and then after I read everyone else's, possibly comeback and add to/change my opinion.
Thought 1: I was SO pleased with Buffy's conversation with the vampire (what was his name?). I loved her admitting to the the fact that a) Spike really loved her, b) she's got a superiority complex and c) she doesn't do well with men because she thinks they can never meet her expectations. ANd the repeated use of the phrase "beneath me/you/them". Wow. Wow. It's what we've ALL been thinking, and yet we'd neve thought we'd get to hear. And he was cute, too--- and kinda funny. And weirdly, in that the convesation could also be seen the very root of Buffy's problem with falling for vampires in the first place--- she doesn't kill them immediately, she has conversations with them!!!
2. Jonathon's dead. I didn't ever, EVER see that coming. I mean, I did, lots a times, but never by Andrew as a sacrifice to the hellmouth's evil, spurred on by a fake Warren.
3. Cassie's grand exit. Gross. evil bad, gross smile.
Onto the ther conversations:
4. I don't think they were the real people, as discovered by Willow. And we'll have a hell of a time this season tryignt o figure out which ones were, and whihc ones weren't. Cassie obviously wasn't, and I don't think Warren was either-- they're both the Big Bad (BB) manipulating people.
5. I'm up in the air about Joyce-- the other demon suggests that we're supposed to believe that she WAS real, but that could have been a set-up to convince Dawn, and thus to convince the Slayer. And besides, the way she warned Dawn was weird-- "She won't choose you....Buffy willl be against you." Why? Whose to say Dawn won't be in the wrong at that point, if Buffy end up against her? Or is Buffy gonna be evil, or be manipulated into doing evil? Or was Joyce a clever manipulation of Dawn
6. Dawn--- That's girl's cool, cute, and amusing. And good for her, banishing that demon (though the ease with which that happened still makes me wonder if it was a set-up). And good acting.
7. Willow--- felt so bad for her. And clever clever Joss, using Cassie-- a sympathetic character we're all predisposed to believe--- to pull our chains. Good for Willow for seeing through it... obviously the BB is trying to get rid of the most powerful ones who can oppose it later. Not that Willow's totally under control yet either, but that's gonna be abattle for her for the rest of her life (however short that may be.)
8. Spike... first, he looked SO much more like JM tonight, more than he has in any other previous episode as Spike. He looked like this normal, depressed, really hot guy.
now, let me convey tpo you a conversation I had w/ my dad, as he walked in on the last twelve minutes:
Dad: "It looks like this is some big chost compsiracy."
Me: "I think so too."
...
vamp on tv: "Spike? He's the guy that--what'd you say? Sired me."
Me: "What? See, how that blond guy just killed that girl?! And--"
Dad: "I don't think it was him."
(this from a guy who almost never watches the show, and only rarely listens to my attempts give him brief plot sketches.)
Me: "I don't either. I mean, he can't hurt people-- he's got this thing htat keeps him from hurting anyone. And plus, he's all remorseful now."
Dad: "Looks like none of this is real, and something's attacking Buffy and her people."
Me: "Yeah, probably trying to get her to kill him. Or something."
Anyway, that's my opinion too. Sometimes its best to listen to someone who's watching it who doesn't have the background info, and isn't all caught up in Spike's future. They have clearer perspective.
So that's it-- I don't think it was Spike turning those people, and if it is, then I think something's up. But I don't think it was him at all-- I think it was the smae monster that's terrorizing Willow and Dawn and Andrew. Actually, it made me think of the fanfic by limber-- 'Base Elements'. That one has another vampire running around using Spike's name and killing in his image. Though I think the thing doing the killing is the BB, not a vamp or Spike, and its doing it so that Buffy will kill Spike-- thus eliminating one of her allies, and causing her deep emotional pain.
Ok. I'm just gonna comment here first with my own untainted thoughts (finished it ten minutes ago), and then after I read everyone else's, possibly comeback and add to/change my opinion.
Thought 1: I was SO pleased with Buffy's conversation with the vampire (what was his name?). I loved her admitting to the the fact that a) Spike really loved her, b) she's got a superiority complex and c) she doesn't do well with men because she thinks they can never meet her expectations. ANd the repeated use of the phrase "beneath me/you/them". Wow. Wow. It's what we've ALL been thinking, and yet we'd neve thought we'd get to hear. And he was cute, too--- and kinda funny. And weirdly, in that the convesation could also be seen the very root of Buffy's problem with falling for vampires in the first place--- she doesn't kill them immediately, she has conversations with them!!!
2. Jonathon's dead. I didn't ever, EVER see that coming. I mean, I did, lots a times, but never by Andrew as a sacrifice to the hellmouth's evil, spurred on by a fake Warren.
3. Cassie's grand exit. Gross. evil bad, gross smile.
Onto the ther conversations:
4. I don't think they were the real people, as discovered by Willow. And we'll have a hell of a time this season tryignt o figure out which ones were, and whihc ones weren't. Cassie obviously wasn't, and I don't think Warren was either-- they're both the Big Bad (BB) manipulating people.
5. I'm up in the air about Joyce-- the other demon suggests that we're supposed to believe that she WAS real, but that could have been a set-up to convince Dawn, and thus to convince the Slayer. And besides, the way she warned Dawn was weird-- "She won't choose you....Buffy willl be against you." Why? Whose to say Dawn won't be in the wrong at that point, if Buffy end up against her? Or is Buffy gonna be evil, or be manipulated into doing evil? Or was Joyce a clever manipulation of Dawn
6. Dawn--- That's girl's cool, cute, and amusing. And good for her, banishing that demon (though the ease with which that happened still makes me wonder if it was a set-up). And good acting.
7. Willow--- felt so bad for her. And clever clever Joss, using Cassie-- a sympathetic character we're all predisposed to believe--- to pull our chains. Good for Willow for seeing through it... obviously the BB is trying to get rid of the most powerful ones who can oppose it later. Not that Willow's totally under control yet either, but that's gonna be abattle for her for the rest of her life (however short that may be.)
8. Spike... first, he looked SO much more like JM tonight, more than he has in any other previous episode as Spike. He looked like this normal, depressed, really hot guy.
now, let me convey tpo you a conversation I had w/ my dad, as he walked in on the last twelve minutes:
Dad: "It looks like this is some big chost compsiracy."
Me: "I think so too."
...
vamp on tv: "Spike? He's the guy that--what'd you say? Sired me."
Me: "What? See, how that blond guy just killed that girl?! And--"
Dad: "I don't think it was him."
(this from a guy who almost never watches the show, and only rarely listens to my attempts give him brief plot sketches.)
Me: "I don't either. I mean, he can't hurt people-- he's got this thing htat keeps him from hurting anyone. And plus, he's all remorseful now."
Dad: "Looks like none of this is real, and something's attacking Buffy and her people."
Me: "Yeah, probably trying to get her to kill him. Or something."
Anyway, that's my opinion too. Sometimes its best to listen to someone who's watching it who doesn't have the background info, and isn't all caught up in Spike's future. They have clearer perspective.
So that's it-- I don't think it was Spike turning those people, and if it is, then I think something's up. But I don't think it was him at all-- I think it was the smae monster that's terrorizing Willow and Dawn and Andrew. Actually, it made me think of the fanfic by limber-- 'Base Elements'. That one has another vampire running around using Spike's name and killing in his image. Though I think the thing doing the killing is the BB, not a vamp or Spike, and its doing it so that Buffy will kill Spike-- thus eliminating one of her allies, and causing her deep emotional pain.
no subject
Me: "What? See, how that blond guy just killed that girl?! And--"
Dad: "I don't think it was him."
I think your Dad's one smart cookie.
Though I think the thing doing the killing is the BB, not a vamp or Spike, and its doing it so that Buffy will kill Spike-- thus eliminating one of her allies, and causing her deep emotional pain.
Me too. If it is Spike, the writers would have to cop-out big time by saying the chip didn't work because he was possessed.
I'm also beginning to think that the vampire Buffy was talking to wasn't real. In the sense of 'I just clawed my way out of the grave, but I'll sit around and chat, and lead you into a conversation where I can convieniently tell you my sire was your ex-boyfriend'. Just a feeling I got.
Re:
Actually, I disagree. I think that he was the ONE real dead person that anyone talked to last night-- Willow, Dawn, and the blond woman at the Bronze all talked to 'dead people' who aren't who they appear to be. I think this guy was real, and he was sired by a vampire who looks like & calls himself Spike-- I just don't think think the one who sired him was Spike-- or even, really, a vampire.
Or something's controlling Spike. But I don't think Spike's willfully gone evil, not after all the pain the soul seems to be doing to him, and how desperate he is NOT to hurt Buffy in anyway. Plus, why would the writers say Buffy deserves a lover with a soul, and go all the trouble last year to emphasize that, only to make the soul invalid by having Spike be a killer anyway? It doesn't make sense. And in fact, I'm gonna mention that at CW...
Re:
But we agree that Spikes not evil. (I don't think he was that guys sire either.) Funny, Anyone who's un-spoiled isn't getting worked up over the Spike can bite people issue. I think the spoilers and wildfeed must have read different than what we saw. Another reason why spoilers=bad.
Re:
Yeah, I know. So many spoiled people were so upset-- about that, about Him. I wasn't made curious and anxious by the feeding, but not really traumatized. Maybe casue I'm so firmly convinced that its gonna be ok in the end, that the horror hasn't set in still. And I liked Him... I thought it was funny, and positive overall for B/S. And yet, the soiled people were shitting dinosaur eggs. I didnt get what the big deal was-- yeah, she claimed to love another guy, so did Dawn, Willow, and ANYA. It was a spell, so it meant nothing and doesn't bother me.
I think spoilers give people these expectations, and it means they react differently to actual show. I'd rather just watch it unspoiled... that way I'm watchign it how its meant to be watched, and I'm getting the impressions they're trying to convey, unwarped.
no subject
I gotta go with that one. Mainly because if it was Spike, he'd be feeling some kind of pain when he fed on her. Sure, the pain's less now because of the new pain the soul's causing him, but I can't believe that one pain cancels out another. If it is, that's just shoddy writing.
Re:
Yeah, I'm kinda with you on that. Cause me, I can't ABIDE physical pain. I hate it the way some people hate roaches or George W. Emotional pain-- that's not so muh of a bother to me. Granted I've had an easy childhood and not a lot of serious emotional pain to deal with, but still... one doesn't cancel out the other. If anything, its psychosomatic and each one makes the other worse.