timepiececlock | I'm sorry flist, I failed you.

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I'm sorry flist, I failed you.

So...instead of watching the FMA movie and seeing if the sub's any good, I finished The Tenth Kingdom miniseries. ((Just so you know, though... I can't speak to the translation quality yet but I did peak at the first few minutes and the [PsyKe] fansub of The Conqueror of Shambala does have large, pretty image quality. Mmm...FMA prettiness...!))

I couldn't help it! I hadn't seen it since it aired on tv and I loved it back then. And now, rewatching with all the parts I'd missed before... I love it even more. The depth of detail with which the fairy tales were interwoven into the plotline was amazing. They could have made it shorter and passed with half the stuff they managed to include, yet it never felt too busy. It was long and lush and thoroughly enjoyable. Each fairy tale /myth subplot had a character-developing purpose, and it pushed along the overall plotline, which was a wonderful and ultimately very moving story about the dark themes that underlie all fairy tales beneath the glitter: murder, lust, vengeance, fear, parental abandonment, betrayal, and loss. At first it's just a happy adventure ride but the dark side of fairy tales is there too, waiting to spring out at you and cut your heart.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching Tony and Virginia react to the abusrdities present and prevalent in the fairy tale-ish Nine Kingdoms. Two doors, one that leads to a horrible death?
"WHO DECIDES THIS CRAZY STUFF? WHAT IS THE POINT IN HAVING A DOOR THAT LEADS TO HORRIBLE DEATH?" Word up, Tony. Word.

Random other things:

I forgot how much I enjoyed the main actress of Virginia's character-- she was very good. And very pretty in a Snow-White way, though not an annoying way.

Actually, all the acting for the five main characters was fabulous.

What's her name as the queen was good. But then, I like almost every movie or show I've ever seen that actress do, now that I think about it. And this was quite an interesting turnaround for her-- instead of being sweet and matronly and huggable she was Evil with a capital E. The truth about the Queen and Virginia's backstory... god it's so sad. The scene where Tony is confessing to Virginia about how her mother almost killed her as a child... that scene is so painful. That's what made this miniseries really work for me-- that underneath the fluff were real emotions and real normal, human drama. The Nine Kingdoms, like fairy tales, are an allegory made real, where Virginia and her mother's true conflict can be played out in a fantastical realm...but in the end the magic doesn't matter, it's just down to the two of them. I also liked it for how it broke down the one-dimensional image of Tony the buffoon into something much deeper and much more realistic...and it did the same thing to The Queen/Chrisitine's character. Suddenly, it's not funny or cheesy-- it's real.

And Wolf! He's both insanely annoying and insanely endearing at the same time. And then the next minute he's really sexy, especially when he's being sinister. The whole kitchen outfit (white shirt, red vest) in the second-to-last hour was SO HOT. Oh, and that moment when he picks a nut or raisin whatever off the table in the queen's mirror room and tosses it into the air and catches it perfectly in his mouth? HOT. I remember when I first watched it I was heartbroken over his "betrayal", especially considering he had just had sex with Virginia like 6 hours beforehand. This time around, I was paying a lot more attention to his character development, and I noticed the places where you could see his indecision. I think he really did go back to the queen after Virginia rejected him, but he either decided on his plan in the days before he caught up to the trio again, or he made his decision on the spot when Virginia told him she might love him. I have this suspicion that he wanted to be with her before the final battle because he wasn't sure he would live through the multiple levels of betrayal he was about to embark on. Still, it was pretty assholeish of him, to instigate advancing their relationship to a physical level when he planned on breaking her heart (if only for pretend.)

Ultimately, I adored their love story. I liked that he was constantly telling her he believed in her. Of course he was also telling her how much he was attracted to her all the time, but even stronger than that was his unshakable belief that she was good and strong. And that's what Virginia needed so badly in a partner-- someone who believed in her. I'm not sure what her love does for him, except inspire him to be better in the courtly tradition... we see Virginia fall in love but Wolf is just *in love* right off the bat for no particular reason. Then again, maybe it's hard to pinpoint exactly his half of the relationship because it's literally happening right in front of the audience, and we're tempted not to take it at face value when he explains right out of his mouth how much just being around her has made him different. He starts off as a criminal (wrongfully or rightfully imprisoned, we don't know?) and not a terribly bashful one, but as soon as he sees Virginia and falls in love at first sight, he immediately gives her his allegience. Maybe it's hard to take that at face value because it's so fairy-tale like? But he is a magical person from a magical world, where love really can happen at first sight, and be as earthshattering as if it'd been simmering for years.

Oh... THE SINGING RING. Dear god, I would not have that thing on my finger. Did they have to make it so annoying?

Prince Wendell... I didn't like him much the first time I saw the miniseries, and he's still not my favorite character, but he did grow on me this time around. His sarcastic side comments about Wolf and Virginia in the kissing town were hilarious and made his entire presense in the film worthwhile. Anyway, I don't think we were supposed to like him in the beginning-- he wasn't very likeable. He had to grow up along the journey too, as he comes to realize.

The script was something I also really enjoyed. Most of the jokes worked for me, both spoken and acted/unspoken. The dramatic lines carried real emotional impact. A few parts were over the top embarrassing, but not like a Jim Carrey movie or anything... I just have a very low tolerance for embarrassment squick on film.

I'm really pleased I found this again. I have to burn it to DVD and keep it for a long while. I'm just sad there was never a sequel! ...And man, I need ICONS! Does anyone have any good 10thKingdom icons?

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but as soon as he sees Virginia and falls in love at first sight, he immediately gives her his allegience.

I always looked at that from a "wolves mate for life" standpoint than anything else. Someone entirely human - like Virginia - would require time to get to know and fall in love with somebody. Wolf, well, he's not entirely human, and more of his instincts fall into the category of being, uh, a wolf. Yeah.

I MAKE NO SENSE. LISTEN NOT TO ME.

No, it makes a lot of sense-- he says it a couple of times in the show. I saw it mostly that way too-- but it's weird to try and think of it in those terms, since you really want to think of him as human.

I thought you hadn't seen it?

I've seen it. I watched it when it reran on television a while back. When it came out on DVD, I bought it, like, so fast. I absolutely love that miniseries.

God I had such an insane crush on Scott Cohen (Wolf) when that came out. I even bought this so bad it's good computer game called Ripper because he was in it.

I love Prince Wendell, well when it's the dog in Wendell's body at least. "Can I have a biscuit? Prince Wendell love's biscuits!"

*sighs* I really need to go buy that on DVD now, I can't believe I don't own it.

The Wendell!dog was adorable! Embarassing, but adorable.

:) So many happy memories. You know, at the time, I went on line and found some really good 10k fanfic, but I was so new to fandom I forgot to save it. There was this one particular archive that was set-up like a bookshelf... I wonder if it's still around?

*googles*

I have to burn it to DVD and keep it for a long while. I'm just sad there was never a sequel!

Um. You know that Monty Python skit where the guy's all Know whatahmean, know whatahmean, nudge nudge, know whatahmean, say no more?

I suck at being sly so lemme come right out and beg. OMG where did you find it? Where can I find it? PLEASE!

I hadn't thought of it as bestiality much either, though the "stroke my tail" thing kinda weirded me out.

If you remember any fic recs, I'd love to read them.

Link: http://ts.searching.com/torrent/399988/The_10th_Kingdom

I hadn't thought of it as bestiality much either, though the "stroke my tail" thing kinda weirded me out.

I came up with a handy-dandy rationalization for it.

See, bestiality is gross and wrong because it's with "beasts"-- that is: creatures who can't give informed concent. But Wolf is more like an alien from Star Trek. He's another species, yes. But he's as aware as any human and fully capable of making choices about who he does and doesn't want to sleep with.

So morally, it's not the same as molesting a sheep. The only other possible ick factor would come from his not being entirely human, but if I don't mind alien/human cross-species couplings, I don't have any reason to mind s human/WolfWithHuman-likeIntelligence coupling, either.

That's my rationalization, and I'm stickin' to it! :)

If you remember any fic recs, I'd love to read them.

I looked around and found that the bookshelf place was www.kingdompress.com/10k/, and that it has since closed. But then I looked a little further and found that the guy who ran it moved all the fics over to AngelFire, so the site still exists!

You can find it here:
http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/kingdomspress/index.html

I'll have recs as soon as I can figure out which novels are which. There's this one I remember about Wolf and Virginia's lives in New York; Virginia is keeping a journal, and there's this enchanted necklace...

Thanks for the link. :)

Er, Half-HumanWolfWithHuman-likeIntelligence.

I found it! Eee. I wonder if it's as good as I remember...

After returning through the mirror, Virginia encourages Wolf to keep a diary of this experiences in his new home.

He ends up having a lot to write about. Poor Wolf.

http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/cleo617/b/novels/diary/index.html

*starts reading*

Er, oops. Actually, it's Virginia's diary. I got confused because the first entry is by Wolf.

*cough* Not the first entry, the teaser.

When it was on TV, my dad came in right during scene where Virginia & Wolf make teh secks.

Dad: *frown* Isn't that bestiality?
Me: What? Ew! No. Shut up. Go away, go away! EWWW!!

I hadn't thought of it that way previously. I had such a crush on Wolf, which he damn near ruined for me.

Ahaha, I actually had no problem with that as a kid (or now, which probably says everything about me you could ever need to know). Fairy tales have always had ambigious stuff with animals, and if you read a lot of folk tale stuff on a global level as a kid (I was a dork okay), the animal/human marriage thing works as a story device.

Creepy in real life? Yes. But it doesn't bother me with Wolf and Virginia. XD

Fairy tales have always had ambigious stuff with animals, and if you read a lot of folk tale stuff on a global level as a kid (I was a dork okay), the animal/human marriage thing works as a story device.

Ah, that might be it. See, my parents didn't tell me fairy tales when I was a kid. So when I finally got around to watching/reading fairy tales and fantasy stuff on my own, the tropes of the genre were a little freaky to me.

Hee! It really might be that. One of the books my parents bought me as a kid was an international collection of folk tales dealing with the bestial marriage concept (usually typified with Beauty and the Beast, where the Beast is either lion or boar, though there's a great variety within the, uh, genre), so there it goes. XD

I got my earliest fairy tales from school and Disney (Disney movies, Disney kid books). I'm not sure if my parents ever *told* me fairy tales per se, but they certainly gave me plenty of media filled with them.

Taken out of context, they are a little weird. But I think they're less weird if you were exposed to Mother Goose nursery rhymes as a kid, or fables, which had very similar uses of animals and objects.

Question. Are the animals in fairy tales just meant to be animals, or are they, like, a metaphor or a symbol? If so, does Wolf fit within any particular symbolic structure, or is he just a half-human wolf with no garnishing?

It depends, I think. Different animals tend to fit different roles, depending on which culture (or continent) you're mucking around with; birds tend to be messengers and aids, while wolves tend to be either malicious wild elements (the Big Bad Wolf) or a benign wild force (the wolves caring for an abandoned infant -- less common in West European folk tales than to the East and on other continents). The malicious element tends to be more popular, especially in the fairy tales remembered today.

So you could make a case for Wolf fitting into a particular structure -- he's presented as a benign wild force for the majority of the miniseries, though he's definitely shown behaving in a malicious manner at several points -- and you'd probably do very well at it. I rather think he was just intended to be a half-wolf myself -- the angle seems less to have Wolf fit into a particular role, and more to subvert the general perception of a wolf as a negative presence in the popular fairy tales.

(It's also vaguely off-topic, but still related: outside romantic European tradition (fairy tales generally told in a certain way after, say, the 1500s), animals in folk tales who have major roles have an assumed duality. Coyote can be, at the same time, both animal and man; a bear can be a woman in a skin at the same time she is a true bear. It's sort of an understood thing, that the boar this girl in India was wed to is a beast but also a man, though it's the beastly nature that is emphasized, depending on the story's outcome -- if the marriage is a happy one, the humanity of the creature is forefront; if the marriage is poor, the beastly nature is emphasized, often crudely.)

Coyote can be, at the same time, both animal and man; a bear can be a woman in a skin at the same time she is a true bear. It's sort of an understood thing

You know, that makes a lot of sense for Wolf's character. When I first saw it I thought he was half-wolf, but watching it this time I noticed that he never claims to be even half-human, and he said his parent[s] were burned by villagers. I don't think he's half-human at all, though he's surely more of a mystical wolf than an average wolf, being that he looks human and interacts with humans. The duality thing would explain it-- in appearence he seems a man but he's always emphasizing his wolfness.

Oh, I think it does make sense, especially given he blames both his parents for pushing food on him constantly (with the implication of eating humans as well -- "eat this, eat that, eat her"). For all the many failings of the novel, one of the details I rather liked was that Wolf doesn't think of himself as being genuinely human or even half-human; he refers to himself multiple times as being an enhanced human, or more often as just a flat-out wolf. It always struck me as being an odd way to put it if one of his parents was human.

*squee* I have nothing constructive to say, except thanks for the really neat reply. I love the different light it sheds on Wolf's character; I've been laboring under the misapprehension that he's half-human (must rewatch series!), but I like the idea of his full-wolfness and duality so much better!

Say, do you two know each other?

Memlu, meet mswyrr. Mswyrr, meet Memlu!

Memlu was one of the folk to got me hooked on Avatar and first introduced me to the new Dr. Who episodes.

Mswyrr loves the 8th Doctor as much as I do and is a bounty of recs when you desperately need good fic.

You both write lovely fanfiction, too! ::claps:: I love when like minds collide in fandomverse.

Eighth doctor! From the tv movie, yes? *saw it as a kid, ahaha, but remembers very little*

Also! TENTH DOCTOR = AWESOME? There is only one correct answer and it begins with 'y.'

mswyrr uploaded the tv movie with Eight a while ago for me. The movie was sucky sucky, but the 8th Doctor was ADORABLE.

Actually, you should watch it (someone on the eps community probably has it) because it will break your heart to see who the Doctor was before the last time war. Mswyrr and I had long post-Eighth-Doctor conversations analyzing exactly how tragic it was to imagine him transitioning from one to the other... and guessing that it was probably the 8th Doctor that did the deed that destroyed Gallifrey. When you see him you will know why THIS IS SUCH A PAINFUL THOUGHT.

THE TENTH DOCTOR IS MY LUCKY GUY. Cause he's lucky, get it? ::has recently rewatched christmas special::

I think either way would work in canon, though it leans more toward full wolfishness. My opinion, though. *g* I know the NBC website -- when it still had a website for the miniseries -- stated Wolf was the grandson of the original Red Riding Hood, but Simon Moore has gone on record to state he wasn't consulted when they produced the bios and information that went on the actual 'site and that this isn't true, so.

And! One of my favorite fics is Buttercup, Called Coin, a look at how Wolf's parents met. It takes a completely different stance: that they were enchanted to be half-wolf themselves. It's very lovely prose, though the formatting is a bit disconcerting at first. :)

Makes more sense for him to be the grandson of the wolf that ate Red Riding Hood's mother.

's what I was thinking. *g*

* aides.

*cough*

Say, do you two know each other?

*bows, thanking Rashaka for the introduction*

A pleasure to meet you, memlu!

How are you! (I have secretly wanted to say A+++ icon, 'cause Eowyn is always good times.)

I'm pleased as punch. How 'bout you?

(I have secretly wanted to say A+++ icon, 'cause Eowyn is always good times.)

TY. I wear it all the time; I don't think I could ever get tired of looking at her. She's just awesome.

Speaking of. I poked around your journal & your Jareth icon gave me a little tingle of delight. V. nice. My compliments. :)

Doing well, thanks. *g*

Eowyn is -- ah! She's such a fantastic, strong female character, with all her flaws and hurts as well. ♥

Hee! Thank you (though credit, of course, goes to

garishlight; I have not the skills or tech to make them that nice XD). Also, OMG YOU KNOW LABYRINTH EEE. *cough*

Eowyn is -- ah! She's such a fantastic, strong female character, with all her flaws and hurts as well. ♥

Mmm, yes. You know, I think one of the reasons 10th Kingdom rocks so much is female characters with strong storylines.

Hee! Thank you (though credit, of course, goes to [info]garishlight; I have not the skills or tech to make them that nice XD). Also, OMG YOU KNOW LABYRINTH EEE. *cough*

Yes! I read a fic (this is a recurring theme with me) set after the movie ends. It was fantastic; a good or better than many fantasy novels I've read. Of course after that I had to go find & watch the movie ASAP.

Things I learnt from the experience: I had an incipant faery/magical being fetish I never knew about; words cannot prepare you for Jareth's skin-tight pants; I'm gonna be looking for magical being/human romance storylines that live up to Jareth/Sarah for the rest of my bloody life, and I don't mind. ;)

My housemates and I rewatched Labyrinth last month, the whole thing. I hadn't seen it since I was about 12...

OMG HIS PACKAGE IS *RIGHT THERE*. His cup is like everpresent in every scene. Every time he twirled magically we would burst out in giggles at the thereness of it--- us being two 21 year olds, a 22 year old, and a 24 year old doing all that giggling.

OMG HIS PACKAGE IS *RIGHT THERE*. His cup is like everpresent in every scene. Every time he twirled magically we would burst out in giggles at the thereness of it--- us being two 21 year olds, a 22 year old, and a 24 year old doing all that giggling.

Hah! I'm not ashamed to say I watched the whole film with a damn near ever-present blush. Just as soon as my face cooled, the scene would change, or the camera angle would move, and ...there it was again. Right in the middle of everything. Proud and, if you'll pardon the pun, downright cocky.

I was so scared a parent would walk through the livingroom at a crucial moment, I kept my thumb glued to the STOP button. ;)

Hey, what do you think. Was the THERENESS of the package intentional, part of the sexual awakening he represented, or did the folks filming it actually not notice what they were putting into a children's film?

*incipient

Hahaha, I just got this on DVD recently. <3 I never actually got to watch the show, but I read the novelization of it several times and I'm loving it as I slowly plod through it. XD

I didn't realize there was a novelization. Are there sequels?

Not that I'm aware - the novelization was just an adaptation of the miniseries itself. It got 'lost' from the library several years ago... that seems to happen to all the books I really like there. x.o

The journal-style fic was quite as good as I remember. I kept looking and found a really cute 10k short-story you might like:

Culinary Disasters by A.N.D.
http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/kingdomspress/b/sstories/and/disasters.html

It's part of a larger anthology I haven't finished reading yet.

Just read it---adorable! I can see him as a chef. And I can also see him charming the pants off the tv hostess provided he stops sneaking looks at the rabbits. :D

Just read it---adorable! I can see him as a chef. And I can also see him charming the pants off the tv hostess provided he stops sneaking looks at the rabbits. :D

I *love* how the writer described the rabbit's behavior from Wolf's POV. They don't just wiggle their noses, they do it "provocatively." The little trollops.

Hee. Corky! *huggles Wolf and his quaint language usage*

Get a chance to take a look at the journal style fic? It starts off a little slow, but it's got awesome kick.

*Discreetly adjusts her giant, purple pimp-hat with peacock feathers*

Through the Looking Glass by A.N.D.

The newsstands were all closed, but she saw a newspaper vending machine down the block. She towed Wolf over to it and crouched to read the date. He crouched beside her, looking too, and gasped at the headline GIANTS UNDEFEATED.

“You have giants here? Are you at war?” He stood back up, craning his neck at the skyscrapers around them. “Do they live at the top of these buildings instead of beanstalks?”

“No,” Virginia laughed up at him. “They aren’t like your giants. They’re just people. A football team.”

“Oh.” She waited for it. “What’s football?”

http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/cleo617/b/novels/glass/page1.html

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I'm sorry flist, I failed you.

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HELLO STRANGER, how are you. <3

Re: HELLO STRANGER, how are you. <3

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Re: HELLO STRANGER, how are you. <3

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Another rec

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Re: Another rec

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