MPREG... is that like .MPEG? or .MPGA?

[timepiececlock]

I've been thinking about it, and I don't understand the point of male pregnancy fics. I only heard about these three years ago, and have read less than five, never finishing one. So I'm not well-versed in the fandom. But I ask the whole of my friends list this:

If the character is going to become pregnant (and I, not having read many of these fics, am perhaps naively assuming that it will be like that stupid Governor Schwartz movie that I never actually watched where he who must not be named walks around with a fake pregnant belly, and not like that stupid episode of Enterprise that I never actually finished where the Trick Trip Tiff whatever his name is character sticks his hands in pudding and gets his body taken over, but manages to avoid being shaped like a mellon), then isn't that just like, in a sense, making the male into a female? If men could be pregnant and have all the appropriate hormones and body changes and emotional stuff that entails... wouldn't we call them women? And if you want to do that, why not do the fun gender-switching fic thing and just turn the character into a female in the first place? I can understand those fics-- thrill and humor of experiencing life as the opposite gender. But if you're going to make a man be pregnant to achieve the same effect... that doesn't make him a man's brain in a woman's body, that makes him a woman. Because in humans the females are the ones with the female parts, and the males have male parts. That's how we tell the difference, most of the time. So if you change that, then what's the point of calling it male pregnancy? It's an oxymoron.

Why isn't it called "Pregnancy of a person who used to be male but now, based on the mere fact of said pregnancy, is obviously not a male at all, but in fact a pregnant woman with an extraneous bit of banana flesh hanging out beneath the belly and an appointment with for a future c-section." ?

I'm really very, honestly curious about this.

If what I think MPREG is about isn't what is about, and this whole line of logic complaint is void, then explain that too.

Comments

[crossouttheeyes.livejournal.com]

"Pregnancy of a person who used to be male but now, based on the mere fact of said pregnancy, is obviously not a male at all, but in fact a pregnant woman with an extraneous bit of banana flesh hanging out beneath the belly and an appointment with for a future c-section."

Can't think rationally when laughing ass off at above sentence.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I hope I didn't inspire your ass to spontanesouly change sex mid-giggle, then. The rest of you would feel left out. :)

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

Word. And everyone should read Sweet Spot and Sweet Spot AU by Rabid1st, for pretty much the best gender-switching I've seen yet. And a non-M pregnancy, with no banana flesh on the pregnant person.

I don't read MPREG either, so who knows, maybe it's like in Alien. Or in Spaceballs where the alien busts out and does a dance with a hat and cane.

caia

[bloodypoetry.livejournal.com]

Check out 1stRabid's Mpreg fic. Very funny, though I don't know if she will ever finish it. A 'kinky' spell that Spike set up to have him and Buffy switch sexes goes wrong, when she returns to normal, and he remains a woman. A pregnant woman. Hee!

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

But that's not Mpreg! I'd never beta Mpreg. He's actually a woman, so no M. It's Spreg. Spike pregnancy. And his maternal instincts are adorable, as are Buffy's paternal instincts. ;)

caia

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Is that the one where they go to a fancy schmansy hotel where they get little gender-switching pills and then have lots of kinky sex?

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

I don't think so... Maybe? The main kink of the sex as far as I can tell is that the gender-switch itself. It's hot, but I don't think it's particularly kinky for smut. Unless you consider F/F a kink.

It's set post Dead Things and pre-As You Were. B&S go to a demon hotel in the desert (it is fancy, but...), and the gender-switch is caused by Obero Weevils that attach to people like anklets or bracelets. The original SS dovetails back into canon and can stand on its own. SS AU, the sequel, wonders what happens if you add resurrection mojo to weevils whose reason for existing is to help beings procreate. SS AU is a WIP.

caia

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

yeah, tha'ts the one. I've read that. I thought it was pillls, thoguh--- sometimes my memory of fanfic blurs together. And I meant kninky in the sense of sex-change.

[kimera.livejournal.com]

djinanna's explanation makes a lot of sense to me.

Personally, I don't like MPREG. I might read it, if there's a plausible enough reason (magic or technology) for it, or if it's genderbending fic. I would *never* read a due South MPREG fic though, for example, because the "rules" of that universe are basically the same as the "real" world (well, okay, there is the fact that the ghost of Fraser's father shows up every so often, but we're never entirely sure that he isn't a figment).

And that's all I have to say about that.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. I read the post, and intellectually I understood all the words she typed, but after it's done I'm still sitting here with a big question mark over my head. I think some is the difficulty of suspension of disbelief, but my main reaction, which a sort of apathetic, perplexed "But why would you want to?" didn't get much to identify with. She gave her reasons, but I guess they aren't the kind of thing that would get me to read the storyline.

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

Ah yes. I suppose that's fairly kinky. *forcibly restrains self from punning*

caia

[47-trek-47.livejournal.com]

well, you don't know me, probably... but I am actually writing an MPREG at the moment. I never actually *planned* to write an MPREG. But, see, one day, I was reading someone's post which was, I believe, complaining about the genre, and all of a sudden, this scene jumped into my head with Giles nervously asking Anya if, in her career as a vengeance demon, she'd ever made a man pregnant.

So, I wrote it down, cause I thought the scene, by itself was fairly amusing, but I didn't plan to *do* anything with it. But the more I thought about it, the more fascinated I became with it. Because, in my experience, all of the MPREGs I have read (or, seen, at least, I haven't actually read very many) have been in slash fanfic, set in an established relationship, and have, generally, involved the character in the pair who is most often portrayed as the more "feminine" character. There's not a whole lotta "m" involved at all, really.

But, this random Giles MPREG plot bunny of mine wouldn't leave my head, because I do see Giles as a very masculine character. And it was just fascinating to me to think what it would be like for him to go through that. As someone mentioned in comments on my story at one point, even for a female, sometimes, the idea of pregnancy is strange. The thought of having another human being growing inside of you... it's very alien, in a way. Like something out of a sci-fi movie. And I think, that by putting a male character in that situation, you can truly deal with that idea, that strangeness, in a more metaphorical way.

Also, I think, it's probably motivated to a certain extent, by the same forces that motivate h/c. Put a male character in a vulnerable position, which allows him to accept the care of another character, allows greater closeness than may normally be permitted.

And this is all late-night rambling that probably won't make too much sense, but I hope it makes at least a little...

P.S.

[47-trek-47.livejournal.com]

Also... as to the question of whether or not MPREG really is *male* pregnancy... I'd say that gender identity is very much in the mind to begin with... so even a fic like the B.J. Sandburg series from the Sentinel fandom, which does involve a gender swap, *could* still be considered a male pregnancy, since Blair remains a *male* character even though technically, his body is currently female.

Re: P.S.

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

Not sure I concur on the language usage. The M in Mpreg means to me a male, as in the (externally) male body, somehow (science, magic) modified to have some kind of womb on the inside. (Usually retaining male genitalia and not having breasts.) Thus a person who is both biologically male on the outside, appears male, and yet is pregnant.

If a man is turned into a woman, and then became pregnant, I woudn't call that Mpreg, because the female body is evolutionarily designed to be able to carry a child. However the man turned into a woman, once he's a she, his body is female. You could use labels like "fem-preg, post gender switching pregnancy," but not Mpreg... it would give the wrong impression, for those who both want to see actual Mpreg, and those who would rather not.

I'm not the arbiter of the meaning of fanfic terms, or anything... this is just how I've understood them to be used.

caia

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Giles nervously asking Anya if, in her career as a vengeance demon, she'd ever made a man pregnant.

:laugh: Oh, that would be a priceless scene! And something I can imagine Anya doing out of spite.


I think focusing on the alienness of it would make more sense to me as a reader than focusing the awe of "mother"hood, so I can kinda imagine approaching it that way.

Actually, your idea conveniently would solve for me the problem of suspension of disbelief-- probably the *only* way I ever could get my head around it would be if it was an Anya vengeance wish, just because universe-shifting power and weirdness are so keenly tied to what Anya's vengeance is all about. It's more specific than just having it be some accidental random curse (because I am already used to suspending my disbeleif for Anya's character) and less unrealistic than a science type explanation. Um... okay that was a strange last sentence to type. Also, the meanness of nature attached to vengeance curses would make it more of a bad thing than a happy baby thing, which would kind of fit with themes of it being unnatural.

But actually, that's where my interest would end in such a fic. I would be tweaked at the idea of it as a vengeance wish, and be curious to see what the end result was on the amn in question, but I'd have no interest the 9 months leading up to it. I guess that's why I can't understand the appeal.

[bloodypoetry.livejournal.com]

Well, true. But..but...sorta! Since Spike is male and all. Heh.

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

You're just trying to wind me up, aren'tcha?

I hereby declare that in order for a fic to qualify as Mpreg, the pregnant person must have a penis while pregnant!

/declaration voice

;)

caia

Re: P.S.

[47-trek-47.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's a good point. I don't think that story should have been labled an MPREG. (and it wasn't, as far as I know) But, I do feel like it involved a male (in his own self-image, at least) who was pregnant.

[47-trek-47.livejournal.com]

Yeah, actually, the mpreg part of the fic didn't entirely hold my attention either. I've ended up spending most of my time on the developing romance, which is actually largely unrelated to the the mpreg stuff.

And this fandom really is one of the few that I can buy the concept of an mpreg in, too, because magic gives you so much leeway. Biologically, pregnancy would probably either kill a man, or at least change him a great deal, and certainly be extremely unpleasant, what with all the conflicting hormones and the unusual stresses placed on a body not designed to handle them.

(Although, actually, technically, it wasn't Anya who cursed him, it was Ethan Rayne. But it *was* motivated by vengeance.)

[bloodypoetry.livejournal.com]

Hey that works. Hehe. So what do we call fics like Sweet Spot AU? No-longer-male-preg fics? Hee

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

Gender switching with subsequent pregnancy?

caia

Not MPreg...MFem...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...however, Spike is pregnant and originally male so maybe it counts. True MPreg strikes me as odd but there might be a reason for it. Sweet Spot is really about gender identity and how love exists outside the physical body. This is kind of my version of the tragic alteration storyline so oft explored...Spike could just as easily be changed in some other physical fashion...but the female thing let me explore deeper issues. Because Spike also wanted to be 'fragile' for Buffy (paradoxically he already WAS the fragile one in the relationship), in the original SS. But the physical transformation let's Buffy see him as something other than a monster. He wanted her to know what it felt like for HIM to be inside of her. He wanted her to viscerally experience being enveloped in the yeilding flesh of the one you love.

And then...it all backfired on him. ;-D Because pregnant FemSpike is just funny.

Still...maybe it will turn out okay. Nos...I will so finish it. Afterall...Tango is about to be finished and I never thought it would be.

Rabid/Raeann

Re: Not MPreg...MFem...

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Ahh... the final judge has arrived! So it's not a true Mpreg, but emotionally it comes close. Still fine fic all around. And funny. :)

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

GSwSP. It's damn near an anagram.

Re: Not MPreg...MFem...

[bloodypoetry.livejournal.com]

I totally want you too. *sniff* It's one of my favs.

I am also going to have to read Tango. Though, I might hold off for fear of getting '-cubus' ideas. :)

[bloodypoetry.livejournal.com]

That works too. :)

Re: Not MPreg...MFem...

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Emotionally I think it's interesting to explore a man-brain being in a female body, and then pregnant. Especially Spike with Buffy, since they'd already inverted an unhealthy m/f relationship in some ways. Where real Mpreg loses me is the physical: not only do I find the idea of an insta-womb inside a guy (and barring alien intervention, how would a fetus get in there?) unlikely, it squicks me out. I'm borderline-iffy with regular pregnancy as a concept. ;)

But maybe why it happens in m/m slash is a result of the writers wanting to give the characters something they couldn't have in reality, the (creepy or uplifting, even for women, depending on your POV) experience of creating life within them. And plenty of people like to write babyfic; if your couple is m/m, well, maybe you just do what ya gotta do. On the other hand, one of my best male gay friends very much wants to be a father – he wants to have six kids. (I was like, remember, you're not going to be the one having them, you know.) It's not easy (or inexpensive) in this society for male gay couples to adopt or have a surrogate with donated eggs, but it is certainly possible. So if m/m-writers want their couples to have kids, they can without doing Mpreg. Still, I suppose part of the attraction of Mpreg is that it's very personal to the characters, and might be a happy surprise, like some m/f pregnancies. (Again, I ask, how the baby gets in there in such cases.) I still don't get it.

I think I've read exactly one Mpreg story. It was XF fic, and M/S, and while I don't remember, I think Mulder had been knocked up by aliens. I suppose I could buy that. It still squicked me out.

caia