(no subject)

[timepiececlock]

Just got a review for a fic I wrote ages ago (Dec 2000!) called Building a Princess. Aaahhhh my Gundam Wing days. How I loved that show...it was my second anime fandom after SM, and it hit every Rashaka pleasure point of the time: politics, bishounen, heavy characterization, sci-fi. Still one of the only two mecha series I ever loved (Escaflowne!), and the first anime that I bought merchandise for. Deathscythe HELL Custom!

I cringe a bit at the fic now: my internal Noin voice was terrible, and I switched POV in the middle. But the descriptions weren't bad and I made a passable if amateurish attempt at actually explaining the pacifism theory. I'm pretty sure I could rewrite that bit to be smarter now that I've been through 4 years of political science majoring, but a political sciene degree has also served to give me a thousand reasons why I could never turn it into a sensible realistic argument. So I think I'll leave it to its fictional universe and signs of fandom youth.

Random GW thought: Why the Relena hate? I remember back when I ued to read GW fic I was always astounded by how much other fans seemed to despise her character, even above and beyond the normal mysogyny you see against strong female characters (::stares at Naruto manga fandom pointedly::). Although her plotlines were as farfetched as the rest, I thought she was awesome; she goes from kid to Queen of the frickin' world, and then from that to one of the most influencial political officials in the new government. She's consistantly portrayed as intelligent and brave, and the audience is told multiple times that she's equal or superior to any of the male characters in terms of power and influence. If I remember correctly (it's been a while), eventually the five other main characters (all male) eventually end up fighting for her agenda by the end of the series, or at least a shared agenda that she to some degree inspires in them (especially Heero).

Anyway, here in House Rashaka, we :heart: Relena. Hmmm... I should rewatch the show, but honestly I'm afraid it'll suck a little. My quality requirements have vastly gone up since 2000, and I'm a lot pickier; I was always in it for the characters more than the writing, anyway.

Comments

[memlu.livejournal.com]

All I know is, Relena was totally my girlfriend.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

You have a girlfriend who looks like a boyfriend that I had last Feb.

hey

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

So. Since I heard "You Know What They Do To Guys Like Us In Prison" (say so if you need an upload) by My Chemical Romance, that's become my mental action theme song for the GW boys. But I've had no one to blurb to about this new designation for the song, cause I didn't know anyone on my flist had seen GW, or I forgot if they had. What think you? I listen to it and I imagine the GW pilots with explosions and screaming angst and the really cool beat and lyrics in the intro.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

she goes from kid to Queen of the frickin' world, and then from that to one of the most influencial political officials in the new government. She's consistantly portrayed as intelligent and brave, and the audience is told multiple times that she's equal or superior to any of the male characters in terms of power and influence. If I remember correctly (it's been a while), eventually the five other main characters (all male) eventually end up fighting for her agenda by the end of the series, or at least a shared agenda that she to some degree inspires in them (especially Heero).

For some reason, a majority of any fandom cannot cope with female characters who possess such qualities. Esp. the females in the fandom. Chris Rock said it best with, "Women hate women". Sad, but it's true, when you consider it.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I've thought about that assertion before, and I don't think it's true. Rather, I say this is true: girls are taught to hate girls. I've found this unexplainable hate occurs most often in anime/cartoon fandoms, and most often in younger fans. Not exclusively, but significantly. And it occurs very often in series with a higher proportion of male characters, especially characters easily slashed. Which is not to say general fans of male slash hate female characters (definitely not), just that an awful lot of female fans of male slash ages 13-20 hate female characters, particularly in anime fandoms. Enough to be an irritating trend that's kept me mostly out of Naruto ficdom and would have driven me out of GW ficdom back in the day if it weren't for the fact that the fandom was so huge there were enough non-Relena haters and non-Hilde haters to maintain a tentative status quo. And the worst part is, it's not even that I particularly need het-- I just need them not to totally hate the strong female characters, no matter who said characters get with.

[v-voltaire.livejournal.com]

She's consistantly portrayed as intelligent and brave, and the audience is told multiple times that she's equal or superior to any of the male characters in terms of power and influence.

This is precisely why Relena is on my (very) short list of characters I hate. (Trust me, usually the worst I get is extremely apathetic about characters.) Throughout the series, we are continually told how intelligent, brave, and generally superior Relena is. The thing is, Relena's actions tended to reveal that she was immature/naive at the best, hypocritical/self-destructive at the worst. While her philosophies may be charming and admirable, when it comes down to it, the way she decided to run things simply would not work. If anyone else had tried the same foolish policies, their nation would have been overtaken within the year. Yet, somehow, everything was roses for Relena. It was like she accidentally dropped a bucket of paint onto the floor and then was praised for her innovative art technique.

Now, Dorothy? Dorothy had the kind of brains, ambition, and ruthless logic that I love in a character. She may have been morally shaky, but her characterization and people's reactions were consistent and her logic followed through to its conclusion.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

The thing is, Relena's actions tended to reveal that she was immature/naive at the best, hypocritical/self-destructive at the worst. While her philosophies may be charming and admirable, when it comes down to it, the way she decided to run things simply would not work. If anyone else had tried the same foolish policies, their nation would have been overtaken within the year. Yet, somehow, everything was roses for Relena. It was like she accidentally dropped a bucket of paint onto the floor and then was praised for her innovative art technique.

The exact same argument can be made for most if not all of the Gundam pilots, however. Heero and Zechs in particular. Maturity and logical plot writing were not always hand in hand in the series, and if you're going to demand it of the main female character, you ought to demand it of the main male charaters.

As I recall (though this part of my memory is a bit fuzzy), Une did essentially do the *exact* same thing as Relena at one point, policy-wise. I don't remember how it turned out for her though. Did "Lady" Une annoy you as well? (not being sarcastic, genuinely asking)

Anyway, as I said about the whole pacificism thing in my post, there's no way it could ever be a logical or effective policy, even in their fragmented fictional verse. So the whole "pacifism is stupid and wouldn't turn out like that" argument should be blamed on all the characters, since it becomes the theme for the series and the motivations for all the main protagonists, not just Relena.

But I have to ask (you don't have to answer, of course): Being honest, would you really despise her character with that much fervency if she were male?

Did you despise Quatre? Though I liked Quatre, I thought he was a lot more annoying in many ways for the same things people seemed to hate Relena so much for.

Dorothy is a scary kind of awesome, I've always thought. Not as scary awesome as Une, but pretty awesome.

[memlu.livejournal.com]

Confession: I didn't really like Quatre until he started blowing up colonies.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I *loved* Quatre being crazy and blowing up shit. I especially liked it when he nearly killed Trowa (whom it took fanfic upon fanfic for me to almost, but not entirely, like)

[memlu.livejournal.com]

It was like overnight my least favorite character turned into Captain AWESOME. And then later, when he was sane again, he was STILL COOL. That whole crazycakes period of his life did wonders for Quatre. (Trowa I liked. I didn't feel the immense overwhelming passion that I felt for some of the other characters, but I didn't feel the apathy I had toward Quatre and Zechs early in the series.)

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

That whole crazycakes period of his life did wonders for Quatre.

It upped his badass factor and actually made him seem like a genuine terrorist like the rest of them. Plus, I love seeing heros go crazy.


Trowa I didn't care about for a long time, but prolonged exposure made me kind of used to him. Zechs drove me crazy. First I was apathetic about him, then I hated him. I never quite bought into the redemption thing at the end, though that was probably because I watched a great deal of the episodes out of order. Multiple times. My view of his characterization probably suffered for it.

[v-voltaire.livejournal.com]

Heero was never presented as a policy-maker. He's a soldier whose sole duty is to follow orders and accomplish his objectives. He's been trained to not question the people he's serving. Heero is presented as an excellent fighter, and through the battles etc. he is shown to really be an excellent fighter. There really isn't any difference between what people say about him and what he is shown to do, so I don't get the same dissonance

Lady Une didn't bother me because Lady Une was completely insane. Her desire for peace clashed so much with her role as PA to a warmongering military man that it ripped her mind in two. I never got the impression that her policies were supposed to be logical or admirable--they were the delusions of a person pushed too far.

I disliked Quatre because he was a whiner, to tell the truth. (I also seriously dislike his voice actor, but that's something else altogether.) I felt some sympathy for the position he was in, but honestly, what was he expecting? The giant fighting mecha he was in to shoot rainbows and sunshine? He was ill-suited to the job he took up and, IMO, he never stepped up to the level the other pilots were at.

The thing is, when I saw Wing, I thought it was going to be about war and politics and interstellar mecha battles and all that fun stuff. Instead, it turned out that all of that was just backdrop to a bunch of teenagers. I don't think I ever forgave the show for turning out to be a soap opera.

Being honest, would you really despise her character with that much fervency if she were male?
Ha. His name is "Julian" and he's in Legend of Galactic Heroes. (An excellent series that is about war and politics and interstellar mecha battles.)

[octopedingenue]

I've never watched "Gundam Wing", but the familiarity of your nostalgia gives me warm fuzzies anyway. I've been re-falling in love with "Naruto" again lately, thanks to gweniveeve and rachelmanija on my friendslist discovering it. Yes, die, "Naruto" girl-haters.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Nostalgia is a thing of warm fuzzies, warmn fuzzies indeed.

I've been getting nostalgia fuzzies from people discovering Doctor Who on my flist. Are you up on that, btw?


die "naruto" girl-haters!