It'd be like a social science experiment.

[timepiececlock]

How sick is it that I actually kind of want to write a Mary Sue fic just to see if I can beat the system at avatarsues?

But what does "beat the system" mean? Does it mean writing the best Sue ever, or the worst? I'm guessing there are two possibilities for such a challenge:

a) To write a fic that embodies every cliche of Suefic, but write it in such a way that I get an "OK" rating [the best they give]. Is it possible to get an "OK" rating with a total Mary Sue-i-fied story?--Is she even still a Sue? How to I do both at once?

b) To write a fic that gets the "Apocalypse: time to die!" rating. Or at least a very love "Abyssmal".



Yeah, okay, I'm bored. Or self-destructive? Or maybe it's a secret desire to see if I can write an OC an integrate her/him with the main cast and, like, get away with it. Of course, if I did go to all that trouble and never got rated at any Mary Sues sites I'd be very disappointed.

Perhaps a penname is called for, to protect what existing positive reputation I might or might not have? But would having an alternate penname suck all the fun out of it? Where's the fun if I can't be held accountable for my crimes against the internet?


EDIT: I could layer it with literary references. The whole thing could be a reinactment of Through the Looking Glass, the way Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? was a psuedo version of The Odyssey! ...::geeking::

Comments

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

if I did go to all that trouble and never got rated at any Mary Sues sites I'd be very disappointed.

Being the former owner/operator of a Sue of the Day Journal, I would gladly lend you a hand in your quest to get "rated". I used to have readers drop me links to really horrible Sue stories from time to time. I'd gladly drop a dime on you, if you'd like.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Someday I might take you up on that offer. ::makes a note::

Oh, and I posted a poll.

[easytodistract.livejournal.com]

Oh my God...

XD Rashaka, sometimes you just kill me.

I recommend making a 'great' Mary Sue. What do I mean by 'great' exactly? Well... in canon, there are lot of popular characters who are ... if you think about it - Mary Sues and Gary Stus.

Examples below of canon characters whom I think are Sue-ish or Stu-ish.

Lara Croft, Nancy Drew, James Bond, Archie Andrews

Japanese RPGames and anime/manga especially are chockful of characters who Sue-ish or Stu-ish but are -very- popular.

There was a point... where I became extremely anti-OC-ish when it came to fanfiction. It became so bad that Mary Sue alarm bells would clang in my head at just the mention of an OC in a fanfic. These days, however, I've more or less made peace with OCs in fanfiction. I even consider it a good writing exercise if I came up with an OC in fanfic which the readers don't mind and even like.

Yup, Sacha in Rebuilding can be classed as a Gary Stu. XD Think about it. He's married to Katara, is Suki's twin brother and is an Earthbending master and an Engineering buff like Sokka. I knew full well that if I put all of that at once, no -one- would read the story. So I intentionally only hinted about Sacha.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Lara Croft, maybe ... but I'm not buying on Nancy Drew, Bond or Archie.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

It can't be Nancy Drew-- I read Nancy Drew stuff as a kid! No knocking the girl who solves mysteries.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Word.

Dude, OMG. New Who. Best. Ep. EVER.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Have downloaded, not yet watched. But that's a strong rec from you!

[easytodistract.livejournal.com]

(being more careful)

I do like Nancy Drew. My dad has a collection of her books and the Hardy Boys. However, -to me- - she is a Mary Sue - since she can practically learn whatever skill is needed to solve a mystery.

Note, it's very okay with me if you don't think Nancy Drew is a MS. To each, his or her own opinion.

Other examples include Superman and Barbie.

I admire a lot of canon characters who can be classed as Mary Sue-s or Gary Stu-s. For female characters, for example, I have a weakness for the 'strong' female character types and for male characters - the 'nice' types.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

A character with absolutely NO FLAWS (physical or personal), is regarded and beloved by others, no matter what they do, constitutes a Sue.

Superman wouldn't be a Gary Stu. Barbie ... it's a strange example, but she's more of one than he is. Superman/Clark Kent have personal flaws and aren't right all of the time. If Superman makes a mistake, he's not instantly forgiven. He's always had to earn his way back into the good graces of the world he's almost selflessly served. The comics represent his flaws more than the TV series' - all of them, can't speak to Smallville since I've never seen it - and even the films.

I'm not trying to harass you. Just clarifying what makes a Sue/Stu.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I don't even remember if Nancy Drew had flaws or not...


I'd like to see a Mary Sue who's so emo with her tragic backstory that she reaches Marvin the Android levels of misery.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

From the ND books I remember reading, I didn't recall her being absolutely perfect.

You should go over to the X-Men fandom. That's where I used to skewer Sue fics. That fandom's fuckin' full of that crap. BLECH.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I briefly stuck my toe into the movieverse ficdom, being that I thought Wolverine/Rogue were totally hot in the first movie, but I didn't stay long. Too much of it required knowledge of the comics, which I don't have or really want.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Too much of it required knowledge of the comics, which I don't have or really want.

When I wrote movie-verse fic, I kept it to the movie canon. The one time I brought in a non-movie character - Dani Moonstar - I fully explained who she was and believe I represented her well enough people would understand what she was about. And why she's the best mutant EVER.

Did you look at the link octopedingenue left in her LJ, to the Spider-Man wank? That's mild wank, compared to some I've read in the X-Verse. I'm sure Spidey's had wank just as bad ... but ... yeah.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I'll check it out; thanks for the linkage.


I did read a really cool XM/Highlander crossover based on the second movie, and how the guy who plays Methos in HL was one of the secret army leaders. It was pretty neat, and satisfied my addiction to crossovers.

If you know/have any movie fic with the Rogue/Wolverine pairing that you'd rec, send 'em my way.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

A friend of mine writes nothing but Rogue/Wolverine fic, and she writes extremely well: dawnie_faith. I'm not sure if she has links to her FF.net account in her Journal, though.

Most of my movie-verse fic consisted of John/Bobby/Rogue or John/Rogue, with an emphasis on unrequited love on John's part. I liked the movies well enough, and the only way I could deal with whiny!emo movie-verse Rogue was to write her into my OT3 or refer to her from another character's POV.

I DID, however, do a crossover between movie-verse and Witch Hunter Robin. John and Robin met one another by chance ... had a mini-adventure. (No, I wasn't pimping my fic! Yes, I was.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I remember reading that WHR fic! It was good. Flaunt it.

I'll poke around her journal and see if I can find some fic.

[easytodistract.livejournal.com]

Okay. Thank you. (phew)

I didn't want to upset others by referring to characters they admire as Mary Sue-s or Gary Stu-s.

The issue of what makes a Mary Sue is very complicated. If you visit the Wikipedia article on it, there's a lot of differing ideas of what makes a Mary Sue.

An idealized character could be considered as a MS... and I actually like making idealized characters.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

The issue of what makes a Mary Sue is very complicated. If you visit the Wikipedia article on it, there's a lot of differing ideas of what makes a Mary Sue.

I don't put a lot of stock in Wiki articles, on just about any subject. Like I mentioned above, I used to run a Journal where I "reported" Mary Sue offenders, so I'm pretty schooled in the Mary Sue Litmus Test.

An idealized character could be considered as a MS... and I actually like making idealized characters.

Having never read your fic, I'm not able to offer any kind of informed opinion there.

Idealized characters and flatout fangirl author inserts are two different things, though. I could call Yuna (of Final Fantasy X) an idealized character, because she was an ideal person, but she wasn't perfect. Someone who wants to, for example, shag Pyro, of the X-Men, and thus writes a crappy character to fulfill that desire ... yep, that's a Sue.

[easytodistract.livejournal.com]

That sort of makes me feel better. 8)

(one-side to Sacha) Hear that, Sacha. You're not a Gary Stu, just an idealized character.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Judging by what you've written about your character - ::points to comment below:: - I wouldn't offer that up to the wolves as a Gary Stu. Contrary to popular belief, OCs can be connected to canon characters in some form and still be original characters, not Sues/Stus. It's all in how you work the connections you've given your OC to the canon lot.

[easytodistract.livejournal.com]

Ah... actually... I sort of already... sacrificed him... since I killed him off at the very start of the story. Heh...

Yeah. You and Rashaka are right, he's not a Stu, but if I had kept him alive - he'd do a great impersonation of one and I would have no story.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Oh ... I plan to watch it again soon. I loved, loved, LOVED it.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

The character in your fic wasn't a Mary Sue because of one thing: he was dead. Now, if he regularly made appearences as a guardian angel and gave advice to the group... that would do it. But death pretty much kills any Sue-ish potential.

[easytodistract.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I know. Poor Sacha. XD I really wanted to give Katara a husband who was Woah..., but I also knew he'd have to go. My intention mainly was so that Katara was a widow with two very young children at the start of the story.

I thought you were quite the savvy observer when you immediately spotted how interesting it would be if Katara was a widow with kids when Zuko became interested in her. Yeah... it was supposed to be Zutara from the start, but Aang just began writing himself.

[easytodistract.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah... I just took a look at the avatarsues LJ com... and am feeling quite let down that it's a lot more active than the avatarfic LJ com and the AangxKatara LJ com.