Doctor Who: speculative questions about current and old canon, ships, and other companions

[timepiececlock]

I was re-dicussing with mswyrr our Vash=The 9th Doctor comparison theory here, and it got into a discussion about the Doctor's relationships with Rose, Sara Jane, and other companions.

Some vague discussion of the newest episode was there, and this assertion came up regarding the episode:

mswyrr: "I think it's a rewriting of canon to say previous Doctors loved their companions the way Nine/Ten loves Rose. They didn't."

I've not seen much of the older Doctors except Eight's movie and the 6 minute clip of Sarah Jane's scene for leaving the show. But what I got out of that clip was the sense that the Doctor didn't at all care for her the way he cares for Rose or the way his conversation with Sarah Jane at the end of "School Reunion" implied. He did exactly what Sarah Jane accused him of doing: he dumped her with barely a thought. Which is not to say he didn't care for her at all, but just that it appeared (by his abrupt dumping of her) to be more of a friend/teacher's pet kind of affection. I can't at all imagine him leaving Rose so callously, and I don't buy into the idea that it's just because it was an old tv show and that's how things worked back then.

But my speculation is mostly moot, given how little I know of Four/Sarah Jane except that short parting clip. What do you guys think?

A.) Do you think this latest episode ret-conned to imply a deeper past affection on the Fourth Doctor's part for Sarah Jane than the original series implied? Or do you think it was actually just confirmation and not convenient rewriting of canon?

B.) Do you think that he does or doesn't see Rose as different from his other companions?


I can't answer A, but my answer for B is "yes," because of two main reasons:

(1) because he told her she outright that she was different in this episode (or at least different from Sarah Jane of the past, who he did dump)

(2) because she was clearly that significant to the Ninth Doctor, and the Doctor's Tenth incarnation was literally born from the Doctor's act of giving his life away out of love for Rose [I make the distinction here between sacrificing your life as an act of pure nobility and the deliberately romantic aspect Nine's sacrifice was given]. Though Nine and Ten are becoming more visibly different, I think the Doctor's feelings toward Rose are actually where Nine and Ten are the most similar. No surprise, given the circumstances of his regeneration.


EDIT: I guess I should say that when I think about it, my answer #2 is actually not answering the question B, it's answering a different question entirely: which is whether or not Ten loves Rose enough not to just dump her... That's a different question from "is she different from the other companions?", because I don't necessarily mean that loving Rose meant he didn't love any of his other companions.
...ARGH. I'm confusing myself here. It's really hard to try to answer these questions when I've only seen stuff of Eight, Nine, and Ten, and the most I know of the others is a 6 minute clip of Four. This is why I want your various and sundry opinions.


That's enough of my view; what say you folk?

Comments

Re: *in from time_and_chips*

[alto2.livejournal.com]

he didn't give much indication that he was at all bothered by the idea of leaving her behind.

It's important to understand a few things here, both about that scene and about the whole Three-Four/SJS relationship.

First, I'm sure you know that you really can't judge an entire relationship by one six-minute departure clip. Sarah Jane was one of the most popular companions ever, if not the most popular, and she is one of those who was around for a regeneration. She came into "The Time Warrior" like she was going to take over the world with her intelligent feminist self, except that she was far shakier underneath than she wanted to admit. She was headstrong and stubborn, but got to the point where, despite the fact that she generally got into trouble (which was part of her job, of course), she and the Doctor became quite fond of one another (I'm sure she idolizes him on some level, but you just can't spend that much time sharing space with someone else and not having a a close friendship/almost familial affection), and she eventually did have the faith in herself that she tried to project when they first met.

You're not going to see that in a six-minute clip.

SJ's departure was unique, because he literally did have to leave her (it wasn't an accident like Tegan's first departure was). He was recalled to Gallifrey, and could not take her along. I haven't seen HoF in a while and unfortunately don't have it on tape, but I did read through the end of the book yesterday and I don't recall, nor did I read, a feeling of "I don't care, I just have to dump you like so much excess baggage" in that scene. Again, it may look that way when isolated from the rest of the episode/series, but that's not what was going on. She's faking being angry and wanting to leave in order to get a reaction, and not at all expecting him to have to do just that. And he's not ready for her to go, but doesn't have a choice about leaving her.

Contrary to "School Reunion," he DOES say goodbye. I'm still not sure why such a big deal was made of that in SR, except that she may not have believed him when he said goodbye, not understanding the circumstances, and therefore felt she was owed another.

My theory on the whole thing is that the curse he speaks of isn't really a Time Lord curse, it's his own--he broke away from that society, and chose to live with other species who die long before he will. Most of the time, he doesn't leave them--they leave him. After a while, you'd have to start keeping people at arm's length, no matter how much you may love them, just in the name of self-preservation. It might not work, but you'd try. I actually worry about the Rose relationship, because I think he's setting himself up for one helluva fall.

Re: *in from time_and_chips*

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Contrary to "School Reunion," he DOES say goodbye. I'm still not sure why such a big deal was made of that in SR, except that she may not have believed him when he said goodbye, not understanding the circumstances, and therefore felt she was owed another.

I thought on that myself for the last two days and the only explanation I could come up with is, she thought it was just "goodbye, see you after I see what they want on Gallifrey!" kind of goodbye. If that was his intention at the time, a permanent goodbye or a "I'll be back in a bit" goodbye, it's not entirely clear. Or, at least, I figured. ::shrug::

Maybe he'd considered it. Maybe not. Of course, Sarah receiving K-9 might've been construed as him "leading her on". "He sent me a tin dog! He'll be back." Then it never happens. Doesn't see him again until half a dozen regenerations and roughly 30 Earth years later.

Re: *in from time_and_chips*

[alto2.livejournal.com]

That's really the only logical explanation I can come up with. And she was an interesting choice for the K-9 gift, given that K-9 didn't appear while she was on the show. Unless he felt bad for leaving her the way he did and figured he'd try to make it up to her. ::shrug::