Doctor Who - Doomsday
Jul. 10th, 2006 08:12 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
timepiececlockIt was, for me, a thoroughly satisfying conclusion to the second season.
I've been reading some back and forth on the final scene. I've got a couple things to say.
I would have been fine if the last we saw of Rose and the Doctor was their grief-ridden selves after the breach closed. I would have expected follow-up or at least some resolution in the Christmas special (and been disappointed if it never happened), but I would have been pleased because I am an angst addict when it comes to tv. Jossverse did that to me.
That being said, I also loved the finale scene. I would have been fine without it, but I'm also happy that it was there. Because it's a much kinder way to leave off both these characters. With CLOSURE. These two have had a bumpy ride and a very special relationship, and they deserve closure. Closure means I can now be confident that Rose will love other people in her life and live that fantastic life Nine told her to live. And the Doctor will be able to say goodbye to her without having to watch her die in front of him. Because that's what I was expecting to happen-- the only way they'd let each other go was if she died or something permanent like this happened. As it happened, she DIDN'T die, and that means she's free to live a great life and he's free to move on and live his fantastic life and yeah, they'll be sad for a while, but at least now their relationship will always be looked on as something wonderful, not tragic. When the Doctor thinks back to Rose he'll imagine her and be happy instead of sad. When Rose thinks back to the Doctor she'll imagine him and she'll be grateful instead of lonely.
The reason that I think I really, truly, like the final scene, however, is not just that it allows her to confess her love and him to show it, even if he misses his chance to say it--the reason I love the final scene is that it is fulfillment of the promise he made her in "School Reunion": that he wouldn't just let her slip away like he did so many of his other companions, like he did Sarah Jane. The Doctor couldn't come back to take Rose away again, but he could give her a real and honest goodbye. I'm absolutely certain he would have done this even if he hadn't promised her back in "School Reunion", but this scene adds a nice symmetry to that oh-so-telling conversation.
On criticism of the so-called sappyness or soap-opera nature of the last scene, and of Rose/Doctor in general:
Oh come on. I used to respect this complaint on the belief that old-school Whovians were justified in their whining that previous doctors were asexual and the show was pure adventure yadda yadda yadda. But I eventually came to the conclusion that such is a ridiculous argument. I've watched some old school Who episodes. And you know what? It was cheesy.
Just like the 2005 and 2006 seasons are cheesy. This isn't news to anyone, I hope. I could tell immediately in the first episode.
Doctor Who is a cheesy show. If the aliens are cheesy and the Doctor is a cheesy mod-like character and the spaceship is cheesy and the plotlines are cheesy, did you honestly expect that any romantic storyline would not be more or less cheesy too? Of course it's slightly over the top and melodramatic and sappy. Remember what you're watching, people.
The only difference with the new show is that the a stronly romantic element was introduced, and it was given some of the same cheesiness as the aliens and the spaceships and the time-travelling. (I'd argue admirably less cheese, considering you have villains like the Daleks and the Slytheen right next to happy robot dogs.)
If you don't like the romantic aspects, fine. I respect noromos. But don't say you are open to romantic ideas in the show and then whine to me that the one you were given was like a soap opera or that it was overly sentimental. Bitch, please. You take one look at the character design of the Daleks and you swallow your tongue right there.
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donna_c_punk, I know you commented on it being soap-opera-y in your post, but don't think this entry is going out specifically to you or anything. It's much more general and directed to much more annoying folk.
EDIT- Totally random, but: I came a lot closer to crying at the end of this episode than I did in POTW. I was sad in POTW, but not in a way that made me want to cry. I came damn close to crying for Rose and the Doctor here. Because this goodbye was so much more final, and because they were both fully awake and aware to experience it. At the end of POTW, I was sad for *me*, because *my* Doctor was leaving, but that doesn't make me sad enough to cry. At the end of this episode I was said for Rose, because she was losing the Doctor for real, and that made me tear up a bit in the corner of one eye.
I've been reading some back and forth on the final scene. I've got a couple things to say.
I would have been fine if the last we saw of Rose and the Doctor was their grief-ridden selves after the breach closed. I would have expected follow-up or at least some resolution in the Christmas special (and been disappointed if it never happened), but I would have been pleased because I am an angst addict when it comes to tv. Jossverse did that to me.
That being said, I also loved the finale scene. I would have been fine without it, but I'm also happy that it was there. Because it's a much kinder way to leave off both these characters. With CLOSURE. These two have had a bumpy ride and a very special relationship, and they deserve closure. Closure means I can now be confident that Rose will love other people in her life and live that fantastic life Nine told her to live. And the Doctor will be able to say goodbye to her without having to watch her die in front of him. Because that's what I was expecting to happen-- the only way they'd let each other go was if she died or something permanent like this happened. As it happened, she DIDN'T die, and that means she's free to live a great life and he's free to move on and live his fantastic life and yeah, they'll be sad for a while, but at least now their relationship will always be looked on as something wonderful, not tragic. When the Doctor thinks back to Rose he'll imagine her and be happy instead of sad. When Rose thinks back to the Doctor she'll imagine him and she'll be grateful instead of lonely.
The reason that I think I really, truly, like the final scene, however, is not just that it allows her to confess her love and him to show it, even if he misses his chance to say it--the reason I love the final scene is that it is fulfillment of the promise he made her in "School Reunion": that he wouldn't just let her slip away like he did so many of his other companions, like he did Sarah Jane. The Doctor couldn't come back to take Rose away again, but he could give her a real and honest goodbye. I'm absolutely certain he would have done this even if he hadn't promised her back in "School Reunion", but this scene adds a nice symmetry to that oh-so-telling conversation.
On criticism of the so-called sappyness or soap-opera nature of the last scene, and of Rose/Doctor in general:
Oh come on. I used to respect this complaint on the belief that old-school Whovians were justified in their whining that previous doctors were asexual and the show was pure adventure yadda yadda yadda. But I eventually came to the conclusion that such is a ridiculous argument. I've watched some old school Who episodes. And you know what? It was cheesy.
Just like the 2005 and 2006 seasons are cheesy. This isn't news to anyone, I hope. I could tell immediately in the first episode.
Doctor Who is a cheesy show. If the aliens are cheesy and the Doctor is a cheesy mod-like character and the spaceship is cheesy and the plotlines are cheesy, did you honestly expect that any romantic storyline would not be more or less cheesy too? Of course it's slightly over the top and melodramatic and sappy. Remember what you're watching, people.
The only difference with the new show is that the a stronly romantic element was introduced, and it was given some of the same cheesiness as the aliens and the spaceships and the time-travelling. (I'd argue admirably less cheese, considering you have villains like the Daleks and the Slytheen right next to happy robot dogs.)
If you don't like the romantic aspects, fine. I respect noromos. But don't say you are open to romantic ideas in the show and then whine to me that the one you were given was like a soap opera or that it was overly sentimental. Bitch, please. You take one look at the character design of the Daleks and you swallow your tongue right there.
*
donna_c_punk, I know you commented on it being soap-opera-y in your post, but don't think this entry is going out specifically to you or anything. It's much more general and directed to much more annoying folk.EDIT- Totally random, but: I came a lot closer to crying at the end of this episode than I did in POTW. I was sad in POTW, but not in a way that made me want to cry. I came damn close to crying for Rose and the Doctor here. Because this goodbye was so much more final, and because they were both fully awake and aware to experience it. At the end of POTW, I was sad for *me*, because *my* Doctor was leaving, but that doesn't make me sad enough to cry. At the end of this episode I was said for Rose, because she was losing the Doctor for real, and that made me tear up a bit in the corner of one eye.
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no subject
Date: 2006-07-11 04:25 am (UTC)So I'm annoying? Kidding ... kidding.
Oh, I definitely agree the series as a WHOLE is cheesy. It's difficult to take it overly serious when you've got the costume/art department finding uses for bubble-wrap far beyond its original intention. The blatant dummies lying all over the floor passing for "dead" humans. A talking tin dog who fires lazer beams out of his nose. And Godzilla Vs. Megalon level special effects on the average.
It started to feel soap-y, but the appearance of the Bride out of nowhere prevented it from going all-out in a quick-snap. If it'd been left the way it was, I would've been irritated. The tears were more than enough to get the point across. And we know she'll be missed. I really didn't want my last image of the Doctor until Christmas was him all-teary eyed and emo in the TARDIS.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-11 04:53 am (UTC)No more than myself, I'm sure. ;) Actually, that was my diplomatic attempt to say "present company excluded", given that I know you're likely to read any DW posts I make, and likewise me for you.
The tears were more than enough to get the point across.
I agree. Actually, the tears and the look on his face was what kept me from being annoyed about the fact that he didn't get to confess. He didn't say the words, but Rose knew it, and the image of him afterward was enough to confirm to make sure the audience knew it too.
Do you think that it would have been more soap opera-y to end with just them standing at the wall? I've heard some people say that would be less sappy, but I don't really see how. It still ends with emo!Doctor. I much prefer emotional closure and then a moment of utter randomness.*
Plus, the Doctor was looking at the bride the same way Rose was looking at Ten when he first spoke.
*also, I don't think the randomness took away from the drama of them moment, either. So it doesn't bother me--it's not like he's going to stop being sad about Rose just cause someone popped into existence on his ship. He'll still be sad, he'll just be somewhat justifiably distracted until he figures out what's going on.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-11 05:20 am (UTC)To me, no, it wouldn't have been sappier. I've seen a lot of companion departures, and many of them were a bit dramatic, but not quite to the level of the wall bit or the appearance on the beach.
Then, I had to take into account the reason WHY he went to the trouble to burn up a sun, to do what he never did or had a chance to do with so many of them before - say a proper "good-bye". Well, say a proper "good-bye" and have the companion REMEMBER it, at any rate. Sarah Jane thought he was dead because he didn't even take a moment to come back (which confused me, since she should've sorted out he was alive since he left her K-9). Rose never really said she knew he was alive after that. Sure the rift closed, but was it at the cost of his own life?
*also, I don't think the randomness took away from the drama of them moment, either. So it doesn't bother me--it's not like he's going to stop being sad about Rose just cause someone popped into existence on his ship. He'll still be sad, he'll just be somewhat justifiably distracted until he figures out what's going on.
It's a way to keep the story going, honestly. Maybe the Doctor will work through some of his loss issues with whatever the plot of the Christmas Special is. I've also read that the new companion isn't due to show up until Episode 3. To me, it suggests he doesn't want to take on a new person. Which isn't out of character at all.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-11 09:16 pm (UTC)That pleases me to hear. On two levels: 1), that I would like to see him wait a bit before picking up a replacement for someone he was as close to as Rose, 2) I'd like to see how they write eps with the Doctor on his own.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-12 06:49 am (UTC)I have this feeling Martha won't be asked to join him, she'll end up with him by means out of his control. I don't want her to force her way on, because that always bugs me. Some kind of a glorious accident and by the end of the episode, she wants to stay and the Doctor realizes he could use another person around. He'd feel comfortable with it again.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-12 07:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-25 05:34 am (UTC)I know romance isn't your cuppa tea, but I've got two semi-shippy recs you might enjoy. The first has AU!Nine with great dialogue, a bit of Ten/Rose, and an Arthur Dent Cameo. The second also has AU!Nine (bitter and bitterer), but a much more serious tone and sort of past-tense Ten/Rose shippyness.