Babylon 5: 3x22 - "Z'ha'Dum"
Apr. 12th, 2008 08:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
timepiececlockIt's interesting, the constant repetition of "If you go to Z'ha'Dum, you will die" as a warning for Sheridan. With people like him, that's the worst thing to say, because inevitably he'll think you're hiding something and want to go anyway.
Better to say, "Oh, that place is just an abandonned galactic strip mall. Boring as dirt and twice as dusty. You can go check it out if you really want to, but it's so not worth the cost of fuel these days."
It's pretty clear from the moment he talks to Garabaldi that he already knows Anna's a fake or twisted or whatever, and is choosing to go for other reasons. I think mostly he's going because Kosh and Delenn keep trying to control him. This is the problem with falling in love with a manipulator: you react badly when they do it to you like they do it to everyone else. And this is the problem of falling in love with someone you need to control: you choose control over trust and in the long run that choice does the same worse worse damage you were trying to avoid the whole time. Sheridan's the kind of person who has to experience something for himself before trusting in the truth of it. He has to know, really know, before he decides, even if that leads to the poorer decision.
The actor for Sheridan has a good "suspicious glare" face. He does a lot with his eye movement and can use his eyes to convey messages while otherwise keeping his expression blank.
Sheirdan: "Who are you?"
Old Scientist: "Now, that's really not important."
Right, because "Who are you?" is what the Vorlons ask. The Shadows ask "What do you want?" One based on the inside, one based on the external. What you have versus what you desire. What is behind you to what is in front of you. And this "middleman" is obviously the one Garabaldi warned about in Sheridan's dream vision.
::listening to his message to Delenn:: Wait a minute... so he took her very clear and precise warning and twisted it to mean the complete opposite of what she said? Lennier did that two episodes ago... does this happen to Delenn a lot? She must be frustrated.
I like the actor for Morden... he's so slick and repulsively charming. But sometimes I feel like the Shadows missed the mark with him; they got the messenge right but got the tone just a little to the left of perfect. Yes, Morden is convincing, but only so to someone like Londo. Vir saw through him immediately, and I don't think it's because Vir has particularly good insight into psychology. All it takes is a suspicious mind to question gifts from powerful people. Maybe the sucess is all in picking the right target--Londo was a good target because he was already willing to pay a future price for a Faustian deal in the present. ...and listening to this Justin Middleman's "explanation" of the conflict advocacy philosophy from the Shadows, I have to think one of two things: A) they really don't get human behavior if they this philosophy will appeal to someone like Sheridan, or B) this is bullshit and they're stalling him for some reason.
I think the Vorlons did a better trick with the Minbari and with Delenn... manipulate your pawns by getting them to do the manipulation for you, believing its for their own good. The Vorlons led the Minbari, and Delenn led Sheridan. It's not as heavy-handed, and couches the lie amongst a lot of truth.
And here we go... John falls into darkness at Z'ha'Dum just like Gandalf at the bridge of Khazad-dūm in the middle of The Fellowship of the Ring. I guessed that Garabaldi would go to pick him up in a fighter ship, but did Garabaldi's ship get sucked INTO a Shadow Vessel? Weird.
Season 2 was my favorite before, but now I have to say that season 3 has eclipsed it. This has been a fantastic run that I've completed in less than a week... pretty heavy hours to be pulling with before-bed television. It's been rewarding, though. When I started the rewatch I wasn't sure if it would be as cool as I remembered, but it has excelled beyond my recognition and continue to delight me.
I really, really want to read a Doctor Who / B5 crossover, now. Like you wouldn't *believe*. I want to see the Doctor meeting the Vorlons (I imagine they had a lot in common with the Time Lords), and I want Rose, Vir, and Cute-But-Nervous-Leuitenant to have an adventure together where they save the entire station and no one notices. Maybe they can recruit Lennier along the way, too. But Rose and Vir commiserating would just make my day.
Anyone want to give me a belated birthday present in the form of such a fic? I did turn 24 two weeks ago...
Better to say, "Oh, that place is just an abandonned galactic strip mall. Boring as dirt and twice as dusty. You can go check it out if you really want to, but it's so not worth the cost of fuel these days."
It's pretty clear from the moment he talks to Garabaldi that he already knows Anna's a fake or twisted or whatever, and is choosing to go for other reasons. I think mostly he's going because Kosh and Delenn keep trying to control him. This is the problem with falling in love with a manipulator: you react badly when they do it to you like they do it to everyone else. And this is the problem of falling in love with someone you need to control: you choose control over trust and in the long run that choice does the same worse worse damage you were trying to avoid the whole time. Sheridan's the kind of person who has to experience something for himself before trusting in the truth of it. He has to know, really know, before he decides, even if that leads to the poorer decision.
The actor for Sheridan has a good "suspicious glare" face. He does a lot with his eye movement and can use his eyes to convey messages while otherwise keeping his expression blank.
Sheirdan: "Who are you?"
Old Scientist: "Now, that's really not important."
Right, because "Who are you?" is what the Vorlons ask. The Shadows ask "What do you want?" One based on the inside, one based on the external. What you have versus what you desire. What is behind you to what is in front of you. And this "middleman" is obviously the one Garabaldi warned about in Sheridan's dream vision.
::listening to his message to Delenn:: Wait a minute... so he took her very clear and precise warning and twisted it to mean the complete opposite of what she said? Lennier did that two episodes ago... does this happen to Delenn a lot? She must be frustrated.
I like the actor for Morden... he's so slick and repulsively charming. But sometimes I feel like the Shadows missed the mark with him; they got the messenge right but got the tone just a little to the left of perfect. Yes, Morden is convincing, but only so to someone like Londo. Vir saw through him immediately, and I don't think it's because Vir has particularly good insight into psychology. All it takes is a suspicious mind to question gifts from powerful people. Maybe the sucess is all in picking the right target--Londo was a good target because he was already willing to pay a future price for a Faustian deal in the present. ...and listening to this Justin Middleman's "explanation" of the conflict advocacy philosophy from the Shadows, I have to think one of two things: A) they really don't get human behavior if they this philosophy will appeal to someone like Sheridan, or B) this is bullshit and they're stalling him for some reason.
I think the Vorlons did a better trick with the Minbari and with Delenn... manipulate your pawns by getting them to do the manipulation for you, believing its for their own good. The Vorlons led the Minbari, and Delenn led Sheridan. It's not as heavy-handed, and couches the lie amongst a lot of truth.
And here we go... John falls into darkness at Z'ha'Dum just like Gandalf at the bridge of Khazad-dūm in the middle of The Fellowship of the Ring. I guessed that Garabaldi would go to pick him up in a fighter ship, but did Garabaldi's ship get sucked INTO a Shadow Vessel? Weird.
Season 2 was my favorite before, but now I have to say that season 3 has eclipsed it. This has been a fantastic run that I've completed in less than a week... pretty heavy hours to be pulling with before-bed television. It's been rewarding, though. When I started the rewatch I wasn't sure if it would be as cool as I remembered, but it has excelled beyond my recognition and continue to delight me.
I really, really want to read a Doctor Who / B5 crossover, now. Like you wouldn't *believe*. I want to see the Doctor meeting the Vorlons (I imagine they had a lot in common with the Time Lords), and I want Rose, Vir, and Cute-But-Nervous-Leuitenant to have an adventure together where they save the entire station and no one notices. Maybe they can recruit Lennier along the way, too. But Rose and Vir commiserating would just make my day.
Anyone want to give me a belated birthday present in the form of such a fic? I did turn 24 two weeks ago...
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no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 02:13 pm (UTC)They just want him to think it was his idea.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 05:50 pm (UTC)I suspect that also may be true of future!Delenn, who knew he would make it back, but I think present!Delenn was genuinely telling him not to go because she took Kosh at his word, and believed the trip would lead to John's death.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-14 07:24 pm (UTC)But I'm of the school that thinks that future!Delenn may have said it as a last-ditch attempt to prevent John getting landed with the whole 20 years thing.
Differences - they make the world go round, yes?
no subject
Date: 2008-04-28 11:16 pm (UTC)But I always thought futureDelenn wanted to get some more years. Which is terrifically sad, given it would have subverted the whole war. But she was three years out and pretty desperate. Also having been, you know, jailed, interrogated, worried her son was dead/dying/possessed, worried John was already dead or that she would die without seeing him again--she's in a really bad frame of mind at that point. Plus she's just had a glimpse of what she missed--the man who didn't die and come back. Course maybe that would have changed their 'ship completely. Oh hell, another AU...
You know, I have a Nine&Rose on B5 WIP somewhere...maybe I should dig it out. I hadn't thought of Vir though, he would be fun with Rose. She would so mother him.