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timepiececlockWarning: I haven't read the manga, am not spoiled, but plan to some day when it's completely finished.
I have this really strong desire to talk to someone about FMA anime pairings, specifically Ed/Noa, of which like 7 people in the entire internet ship and I'm one of them. I have other pairings I ship (Roy/Riza, Scar/Lust), but this one hardly anyone ever wants to talk about.
Noa was only in the movie and, if you've seen the movie, you know how she has a complicated relationship with Edward that isn't precisely romantic but certainly has sexual undertones, and you know how it ends.
I am sort of vaguely aware that the entire fandom hates her. I get why... she is a passive character in many ways, and she takes up "valuable screentime" that could have been used on Mustang or Winry, and in the end her role in events is somewhat negative (gray-area at best) and ineffectual.
So why do I like her? Why do I ship her with Edward? Even though the shipping is really just in my head because I've only ever written a drabble for them, and there's like no fanfic whatsoever to read.
I don't know precisely why I like her, instead of being pissed off at her for being a damsel in distress, but I just do. I have, however, figured out why I like her with Edward: she's not perfect, and Edward is drawn to imperfect people. I think this is why it works for me. Not only did I like the vibes in the movie, and what Ed represented to Noa and what Noa represented to Edward, but I can just see it happening, you know? Edward's character throughout the series (and Alphonse's too) has been drawn to imperfect people. A lot of the "good guys" in the show that he allies himself with are morally suspect or outright killers themselves, or are reformed killers, or will be later. Edward manages to be extremely moral while also being intimately familiar with sin, guilt, responsibility, and death. He navigates a world of imperfect people who make mistakes and suffer extreme consequences for those mistakes.
The way the FMA movie ended made perfect sense to me: of course Ed and Al would drive off into the sunset with the gypsies, with Rose and the reincarnated versions of Scar and Lust, to an uncertain future in a war-torn world. They're wanderers, adventurers, and will never be happy if they're not questing. Ed and Al (but Edward especially, because I think Alphonse is more adaptable to domesticity) have been adventurers since they were kids and it only makes sense to me that they would continue that way for the rest of their lives. Of course, they won't spend all that time with the gypsies, but for now I can easily see the gyspies/Ishbalans being exactly what Ed and Al need for adventure. Ed/Noa feels like a natural extension of that to me... they had tension in the movie, and Edward seemed to react to her in a way that was not explicity sexual but also not completely platonic, and she certainly reacted to him.
The fact that she betrayed him (against her will, or not) and that she wanted him to point her to a better place/idealized his origins... none of that actually stops me from shipping them. Not "epic love eternally" kind of shipping, but a "this makes a lot of sense for these characters in the here and now" kind of shipping. Normally I wouldn't be drawn to a character like Noa at all, given that she's weak-minded, and she has this "victim" vibe. But hell, those are the kind of people Edward is always trying to help. Edward Elric makes people better, braver, stronger. He did it with his own brother, with Mustang, with Scar, with Rose, with Winry, with the other two alchemist brothers, with Wrath, with various townsfolk along the way, even with Greed in a twisted and backward way. Noa at the end of the movie is happier and freer for knowing him.
I look at Noa in the anime movie, and I see an imperfect character, yeah, but I also see exactly the kind of person Edward would (and does) go out of his way to attach himself to, help, get involved with, etc. And I still positively adore that shot in the movie's climax, when he's in the airplane and he looks out the cockpit window and, however improbably, locks eyes with Noa. That shot was so intense, and the stuff communicated in that scene so layered and complex, that I loved it. That shot sold me on a pairing when up until that point I didn't ship Edward with ANYONE. I liked their dynamic even if you don't look at with a romantic/sexual angle, but I thought the movie conveyed a definite (if clouded) subtext of sexual tension with them, and to ignore it would be ignoring part of their character dynamic.
All this can be summed up to say the following: When it comes to FMA and Edward Elric, I ship no one at all or the most unpopular, least-discussed pairing out there. Hell, even Ed/Envy has a massive following in comparison. I've even seen more Ed/Riza fic than I've seen Ed/Noa.
Side discussion regarding Ed/Winry: I know a lot of people don't ship Ed with any of the other female characters because they ship him with Winry, but by the end of the tv show (and certainly the end of the movie) I was much more sold on the Eternal Friendship/Family vibe of Winry/Ed/Al than I was on anything romantic. There was potential early on, but it looked to me like by the end Winry knew she would never be That Girl for Edward, and instead would be his friend, and she seemed okay with that. As I hate the idea of a strong-minded character like Winry waiting around to be the Trisha to Ed's Hohenheim, I'd rather she moved on too. I just don't find the "I'll wait for him tragically" thing to be either romantic or in-character for her. I don't have a problem with putting them together *in* the series timeline, but somehow I can't imagine them together by the end of it, or in the future.
I have this really strong desire to talk to someone about FMA anime pairings, specifically Ed/Noa, of which like 7 people in the entire internet ship and I'm one of them. I have other pairings I ship (Roy/Riza, Scar/Lust), but this one hardly anyone ever wants to talk about.
Noa was only in the movie and, if you've seen the movie, you know how she has a complicated relationship with Edward that isn't precisely romantic but certainly has sexual undertones, and you know how it ends.
I am sort of vaguely aware that the entire fandom hates her. I get why... she is a passive character in many ways, and she takes up "valuable screentime" that could have been used on Mustang or Winry, and in the end her role in events is somewhat negative (gray-area at best) and ineffectual.
So why do I like her? Why do I ship her with Edward? Even though the shipping is really just in my head because I've only ever written a drabble for them, and there's like no fanfic whatsoever to read.
I don't know precisely why I like her, instead of being pissed off at her for being a damsel in distress, but I just do. I have, however, figured out why I like her with Edward: she's not perfect, and Edward is drawn to imperfect people. I think this is why it works for me. Not only did I like the vibes in the movie, and what Ed represented to Noa and what Noa represented to Edward, but I can just see it happening, you know? Edward's character throughout the series (and Alphonse's too) has been drawn to imperfect people. A lot of the "good guys" in the show that he allies himself with are morally suspect or outright killers themselves, or are reformed killers, or will be later. Edward manages to be extremely moral while also being intimately familiar with sin, guilt, responsibility, and death. He navigates a world of imperfect people who make mistakes and suffer extreme consequences for those mistakes.
The way the FMA movie ended made perfect sense to me: of course Ed and Al would drive off into the sunset with the gypsies, with Rose and the reincarnated versions of Scar and Lust, to an uncertain future in a war-torn world. They're wanderers, adventurers, and will never be happy if they're not questing. Ed and Al (but Edward especially, because I think Alphonse is more adaptable to domesticity) have been adventurers since they were kids and it only makes sense to me that they would continue that way for the rest of their lives. Of course, they won't spend all that time with the gypsies, but for now I can easily see the gyspies/Ishbalans being exactly what Ed and Al need for adventure. Ed/Noa feels like a natural extension of that to me... they had tension in the movie, and Edward seemed to react to her in a way that was not explicity sexual but also not completely platonic, and she certainly reacted to him.
The fact that she betrayed him (against her will, or not) and that she wanted him to point her to a better place/idealized his origins... none of that actually stops me from shipping them. Not "epic love eternally" kind of shipping, but a "this makes a lot of sense for these characters in the here and now" kind of shipping. Normally I wouldn't be drawn to a character like Noa at all, given that she's weak-minded, and she has this "victim" vibe. But hell, those are the kind of people Edward is always trying to help. Edward Elric makes people better, braver, stronger. He did it with his own brother, with Mustang, with Scar, with Rose, with Winry, with the other two alchemist brothers, with Wrath, with various townsfolk along the way, even with Greed in a twisted and backward way. Noa at the end of the movie is happier and freer for knowing him.
I look at Noa in the anime movie, and I see an imperfect character, yeah, but I also see exactly the kind of person Edward would (and does) go out of his way to attach himself to, help, get involved with, etc. And I still positively adore that shot in the movie's climax, when he's in the airplane and he looks out the cockpit window and, however improbably, locks eyes with Noa. That shot was so intense, and the stuff communicated in that scene so layered and complex, that I loved it. That shot sold me on a pairing when up until that point I didn't ship Edward with ANYONE. I liked their dynamic even if you don't look at with a romantic/sexual angle, but I thought the movie conveyed a definite (if clouded) subtext of sexual tension with them, and to ignore it would be ignoring part of their character dynamic.
All this can be summed up to say the following: When it comes to FMA and Edward Elric, I ship no one at all or the most unpopular, least-discussed pairing out there. Hell, even Ed/Envy has a massive following in comparison. I've even seen more Ed/Riza fic than I've seen Ed/Noa.
Side discussion regarding Ed/Winry: I know a lot of people don't ship Ed with any of the other female characters because they ship him with Winry, but by the end of the tv show (and certainly the end of the movie) I was much more sold on the Eternal Friendship/Family vibe of Winry/Ed/Al than I was on anything romantic. There was potential early on, but it looked to me like by the end Winry knew she would never be That Girl for Edward, and instead would be his friend, and she seemed okay with that. As I hate the idea of a strong-minded character like Winry waiting around to be the Trisha to Ed's Hohenheim, I'd rather she moved on too. I just don't find the "I'll wait for him tragically" thing to be either romantic or in-character for her. I don't have a problem with putting them together *in* the series timeline, but somehow I can't imagine them together by the end of it, or in the future.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-12 01:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-12 03:04 pm (UTC)I'm generally easy-going with ships with Ed too, except that I don't really see Ed/Roy at all. Ed/Winry I can be okay with provided it doesn't make Winry stupid, but I don't get that excited about it.
but he probably outlives Noa anyway.
Considering all the things that make her life dangerous, and that world war II is starting in a few years, that could very well be true. Or, she could live to be 90, telling fortunes and stuff and have stories to tell about old world europe. I wouldn't expect them to last as a lifelong couple anyway.
I secretly think he marries Our World Winry to have those adorable great-grandbabies,
I *am* all for grandbabies, but Our World Winry... that could be great or that could be creepy. In principle, it's sound.... but if you think about it it's also kind of creepy, marrying the alternate-world version of the girlfriend you left behind. If it were happening to me personally I'd probably be severely creeped out, but I can read about it happening to fictional characters and be okay with it, you know?
*except
Date: 2008-05-12 03:20 pm (UTC)Re: *except
Date: 2008-05-12 11:11 pm (UTC)Also, it wouldn't be creepy by virtue of the fact that both parts of the relationship would know about the alternative versions. In most, the replacement wouldn't believe it even in the person who know told, which you know they never do.
Re: *except
Date: 2008-05-13 03:14 am (UTC)it wouldn't be creepy by virtue of the fact that both parts of the relationship would know about the alternative versions.
Yes. Because if Rose did meet him and love him again, she of course would tell him, and the Doctor would probably figure it out even if she tried to hide it. And the Doctor's one of the few characters who probably *wouldn't* have scruples about this kind of thing, being not prone to human fussiness about certain things.
In most, the replacement wouldn't believe it even in the person who know told, which you know they never do.
I wouldn't tell. Who would? I can't imagine telling if it wasn't to someone like The Doctor, who was predisposed to believing in and understanding this stuff both literally and emotionally. And if you can't share a secret that huge, then there's a disturbing lack of trust there.
In fact, the only show that made this kind of thing really work for me was Farscape (again--FS does so many things right, despite the occasional detours into wrong) with having Aeryn love first one version of John, then the other. And it only worked in that show because they pounded into the audience the fact that both Johns were exactly. the. same. That's not even touching on the idea of souls, and soul mates, and how that goes across universes, if it does.
Re: *except
Date: 2008-05-13 04:05 am (UTC)Oh, I'm not saying not telling is surprising or unreasonable, but it does an a layer of deceit that can make the reader flinch.
On Farscape - my mother and are are stalled out on that at the moment. We're in the middle, and good!John has just died, and asshole!wormhole!obsessed!John is on Moya, and we're like, 'you killed the nice one? Seriously?' I think we haven't watching anything past The Choice, because that way we can pretend that Aeryn goes off with Krase (? spelling?) and Talan and has adventures while asshole!John continues to torture eveyone else on Moya.
Re: *except
Date: 2008-05-13 06:31 am (UTC)THe tricky about the two johns is that John is both an asshole and kind.
I am sorry I just spoiled a bit for you! Really sorry! I thought I was being vague enough that if you hadn't watched it you wouldn't care, but looks like you were at just that moment. ::cringes:: I'm so sorry!
Um... finish Farscape! I can't believe you STOPPED. And RIGHT THERE! That whole period is badness for everyone. That's not even season 4, and season 4 rocked my brain with it's crazy ambition and wacky fun times and heartbreaking angst. Seriously, I have yet to meet a show that is simultaneously so painfully angsty and so incredibly weird-funny as Farscape. For every giggle, they also want an operatic tear. **loves so much**
I can tell you that the show ends in a fantastically awesome miniseries that will meet all your tv-watching expectations for drama quotient and explosion count (because in Farscape anything that can explode will explode) and you should finish it now OMG.
If you trust me as a tv fan, sit down with your mom and watch it.
Crais (spelled like so) became an awesome character in seasons 2 and 3, way more than I expected of him in season 1.
Re: *except
Date: 2008-05-16 07:21 am (UTC)And don't worry - Farscapes on of the few shows where I go spoiled before I went in, and ended up watching things out of order so, no harm no foul.
*nods* I'm really loving Crais' journey, and I hope he sticks around for a while. He was such a great foil for Aeryn and John and Talon.
Doctor Who alterverse stuff
Date: 2008-05-13 08:04 am (UTC)There was no ambiguity in the script, but there was ambiguity in the acting. I will love the writers FOREVER for that beach conversation. Rose mentions "the baby" and the Doctor gets this indecipherable look and asks if its her, and Rose tells him it's Jackie's. Then he says "Aah" and they continue on, and nothing is ever explained. Did the Doctor have that look because of jealousy? Because he and Rose might have possibly done something to result in babies? WE WILL NEVER KNOW. And that, friend, is the ambiguity. You can read that scene however you want.
I like to take the reading that they totally *did* sleep together and the Doctor's reaction was the closest we'll ever get to seeing that admitted on screen, and additionally I like toying with the idea that she totally lied to him, and she was pregnant. She was wearing a pretty thick jacket, after all.
That's the problem with having Rose potentially make a cameo... knowing how she is and who she is just *wrecks* the beauty of possibilities rampant in that beach conversation. It's like we got cake, and now the show wants the cake back, and we look at our tummies and go, "But... but I already ATE the cake... how can you ask for it BACK?"
DW Fics you must read:
great post doomsday drabble: http://rabid1st.livejournal.com/83573.html
Somewhat longer one-shot, my favorite DW fic *ever*, kind of a glimpse into a future if Rose and The Doctor were never separately, and she lived out her life with him. Seriously, this shit makes me smile and cry and is the best Doctor/Rose fic ever, also with a winning last line:
http://community.livejournal.com/time_and_chips/1693191.html
It's on ff.net, somewhere, too.
This is the one I described in the earlier comment, 4000 word oneshot:
http://community.livejournal.com/time_and_chips/2290465.html
THAT IS MY MENTAL CANON. COMPLETELY.
Here's my memories for good Doctor/Rose stuff... a few individual fic links and some rec lists:
http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=rashaka&keyword=Dr.+Who+fic+-+Rose/Nine&filter=all
Re: Doctor Who alterverse stuff
Date: 2008-05-13 03:50 pm (UTC)And I agree about her cameo. As much as I love Rose, nothing they could do would be as awesome as the adventures she's having in my head.
COMMENT MONTHS LATER
Date: 2008-12-02 10:34 am (UTC)Re: COMMENT MONTHS LATER
Date: 2008-12-02 03:59 pm (UTC)Re: COMMENT MONTHS LATER
Date: 2008-12-04 06:39 am (UTC)And the Doctor's one of the few characters who probably *wouldn't* have scruples about this kind of thing, being not prone to human fussiness about certain things.
...and it made me think, "Why haven't more fanfics taken this view of it?" I've read a decent amount (though not even 1/20th of what's out there) since the s4 finale and while I agree Rose would have issues, I'd almost like to see more with the Doctor being cavalier instead of angsting about his identity confusion all the time. (which isn't to say I haven't read some great fics, though.)