music and Buffy
Feb. 18th, 2003 10:53 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
timepiececlockNew icon I made. I didn't actually tint the picture green myself; I'm not that good. The rest is mine though--lyrics are from this great Spike-ish song, "Shackled" by Vertical Horizon. I recommend everyone hear it, for its Spike-value if not for its own inherent coolness (which is pretty cool.)
Just downloaded "Like A Stone" by Audioslave... I'm really enjoying this song. Go, go listen, now! I'll email you a hot screencap of tonight's Spike if you do!
And speaking of that... here's my thoughts on 'Get It Done', previous comments reposted & complied with revelant comments of mine from other LJ converations about the ep. I rewatched it as it aired. Fantastic.
I liked the shadow lesson even more the second time around. Very interesting and original scene for the show. In fact, I don't know that I've seen that on a tv show before (keep in mind I'm not that old), so it seems pretty cool. And creepy. Well-directed scene.
I also found the music to be well-done in this episode. The score playing ath the end, when Buffy returns from the portal and gazes from face to face... that music was certainly effective as a mood-caster.
On everything else that's more plot-centric:
Yes! Finally! It's all starting!
Buffy's gettng serious, getting dark. This episode was even better than last week's-- it had so many points brought to light:
The fact that the Slayer's power is rooted in darkness and is the same as demon power. We all knew it, and we're finally seeing it. I think the visions in the alternate reality were supposed to show Buffy that the first Slayer was more powerful than her successors, and she was more powerful because she alone pushed back the demons from their rule over the earth. Her fight made humankind the dominant species. And the visions were telling Buffy that her fight was going to be as hard as the First Slayer's was-- she needs to be as strong as the First Slayer in order to win.
The comment "last guardian of the hellmouth" confirms my suspicion that Sunnydale will be nothing more than a hole in the dusty ground after the big fight is over, and the hellmouth will be closed.
I am interested in the fact that Buffy refused to use darkness to improve her own power-- even though her power is ALREADY born form that same source. She's already a little darker than a normal human. But she refused the power here that could save the world, on the grounds that it was too demonic. But earlier in the episode, Buffy ripped brutally into Willow and especially Spike, demanding that they delve into their darker natures for the power that it would give thier cause. Will Buffy's opinion on that change now that she's been offered that choice herself? In the end she confessed to Willow that she fears she'd made a mistake in refusing.
The fear the girls must have is being addressed; the effect of a situation like this on people not able to cope.
...haHA! W/K is so over! And amazingly, I still kinda like Kennedy as a character. Her squealy "I love my job!" was cute.
Also explained:
Spike's poor fighting skills, and some exploration of why he's been sub par in the arena lately. And was that "good for the soul" line creepy, or what? Anyway, I liked Buffy calling him on his hesistation, and I liked him pointing out that she was being a hypocrite, telling him the killer is what she wants when it was the killer that she condemned so ferociously last year. But Buffy is right too; he offered himself up for the Slayer's use, and the Slayer has no need for someone who won't fight. I like Spike comment about the soul being a "private" issue--I've also been wondering if his whole life story was just going to be bandied around when it was really quite a traumatic experience.
I even liked Andrew. His flame factor is growing even more and more with every episode.
The two Wood/Spike moments. I'm irrationally pleased by these--I wasn't sure how I wnated it to play out. But it's playing out great. Male posturing! Hunky male posturing! And Buffy not two feet away, prepared to kick both their rears.
Speaking of the duster; it's such a costume. It's just like the blue shirt, and I have a feeling its not going to once Spike admits he took it from Robin's mother's cold dead body. But then, Buffy said she wanted Killer!Spike, so that's what William/Spike is going to give her. I think that Spike did need to start fighting for real, but I also think Buffy needs to stop trying to make Spike into someone else. Even now, she's trying to shape him into what she wants, like she always has. I hope that by the end of this--- after the First, and Wood, and everything, that Buffy just accepts him, as he is. And I hope that by then Spike knows and accepts himself, as well.
I liked Willow chanting and yelling in English instead of Latin. It seems to me that once you get to a certain level, it would be the power that makes it happen (like she said), so at that point the words she uses aren't significant, its the intent behind them. If you're doing this all with your own strength of mind, does the way you speak really mean anything? Power of mind has no language; or rather, it is the same language for everyone.
I think this episode had sort of an indirect shippiness. I'm sure some Spike-only fan is going to scoff and whine "But she was meeeeeean to him!!!" But her comments did nothing but once more ennunciate the difference between Spike and Wood, Angel and Riley, vampire companions and human companions.
Spike was acting weak, convincing himself not be much stronger than a human, than Buffy's "new demon fighter." However, that's not what Buffy needs and it's not what Buffy wants. She needs partner, and she needs that partner to be strong.
Wood will never be strong enough for her. And when Buffy finally accepts that, and when she finally stops trying to turn Spike into the vampire she hated yet respected because she thinks that's the only was she can accept him in her life, she'll realize that in him she has what she truly wants in a life partner. A person with demon strength, like herself, and a human soul, like herself.
On Buffy's reaction speech:
Well, I think its about time.
She wasn't out of line at all. Refusing to tolerate the cowardice of Chloe or Annabelle.
All the seriousness we've been seeing on AtS-- the constant tensenes, the bone-deep knowledge of all the characters that the world will end if they don't act and they're holding on by their fingertips... that awareness is finally sinking in with the Sunnydale gang.
It's sinking in that this isn't a game for children, this is a horrible, evil, nightmarish world they're in, and it's going to kill them. They're really, really going to die. And if they want to prove their worth as human beings before they choke, they're going to do whatever it takes to ensure the survival of the the human world until their very last breath is ripped from their throats.
Buffy's realizing that confidence may give the potentials strength, but won't spur them into action. So--- maybe fear will. Buffy's live a life of fear and pain and harsh truth; she should know better than anyone. Her point was valid: this isn't summer camp or a witness protection program; she won't tolerate a house full of victims. To do so is not in the Slayer's interest (her concern is saving the world, and babysitting does not accomplish that), and moreover it's not in Buffy's personality. Buffy's a fighter who has spent her whole life surrounding herself with other fighters. The ones without usable supernatural power (Xander, Oz, Dawn) still had the fighter spirit she has. And suddenly she's surrounded by victims, victims she's responsible for, and she's sick of it. Now she's going to do everything she can to make them fighters, because if they're too scared then she can't use them. Just like she has no use for a Spike or a Willow who are too afraid of themselves to be that kind of fighter again.
I really think that Buffy's speech showed that saving the world is more important to her than saving the lives of these girls. Which must be a hard lesson for them, because they came to Sunnydale believing she would protect them. This is an interesting change from season 5, when Buffy didn't care about the world, she only cared about Dawn. In GiD, Buffy reminded me a lot of Giles. And that's to her credit.
On suicide and how it is presented by ME:
Was Buffy too callous about Chloe's suicide, Annabelle's death? I guess it depends on what the message on suicide it is they wanted. I think the message ME gave on suicide in this episode was that it was the coward's way out.
Is that what suicide is for everyone who does it? Is that what suicide is for each person who views the show? Chances are, no. Some people rationalize suicide. Some people accept it. Some people ignore it, and some people condemn it. Here, it seems ME is using Buffy's character to condemn suicide.
More specifically-- they're condeming the suicide of someone who has a responsibility to others that requires their being alive.
What's really interesting is contrasting that with Buffy's sacrifice in The Gift, which has serious suicidal overtones. Buffy's suicide served her duty to her people though; Buffy's suicide had a positive purpose-- did Chloe's? Did not Chloe have a responsibility to stay alive? She knew that the more potentials who died in this crucial time period, the closer the Slayer line was to becoming exinct, which would indirectly affect all humans.
Whether you agree or not, I think that was the point ME was trying to make. That commiting suicide out of fear is selfish, and is not acceptable.
For the most part, I agree with that message. I think ME is right to condemn suicide in a show that is seen by so many teenagers. I'm not so convinced on Annabelle's death-- hers wasn't like Chloe's. She died more from ignorance, and I chock her up on the list of 'Sunnydale's Unfortunate Victims Of Bad Luck And Inability To Cope With The Reality Of The Hellmouth.'
Just downloaded "Like A Stone" by Audioslave... I'm really enjoying this song. Go, go listen, now! I'll email you a hot screencap of tonight's Spike if you do!
And speaking of that... here's my thoughts on 'Get It Done', previous comments reposted & complied with revelant comments of mine from other LJ converations about the ep. I rewatched it as it aired. Fantastic.
I liked the shadow lesson even more the second time around. Very interesting and original scene for the show. In fact, I don't know that I've seen that on a tv show before (keep in mind I'm not that old), so it seems pretty cool. And creepy. Well-directed scene.
I also found the music to be well-done in this episode. The score playing ath the end, when Buffy returns from the portal and gazes from face to face... that music was certainly effective as a mood-caster.
On everything else that's more plot-centric:
Yes! Finally! It's all starting!
Buffy's gettng serious, getting dark. This episode was even better than last week's-- it had so many points brought to light:
The fact that the Slayer's power is rooted in darkness and is the same as demon power. We all knew it, and we're finally seeing it. I think the visions in the alternate reality were supposed to show Buffy that the first Slayer was more powerful than her successors, and she was more powerful because she alone pushed back the demons from their rule over the earth. Her fight made humankind the dominant species. And the visions were telling Buffy that her fight was going to be as hard as the First Slayer's was-- she needs to be as strong as the First Slayer in order to win.
The comment "last guardian of the hellmouth" confirms my suspicion that Sunnydale will be nothing more than a hole in the dusty ground after the big fight is over, and the hellmouth will be closed.
I am interested in the fact that Buffy refused to use darkness to improve her own power-- even though her power is ALREADY born form that same source. She's already a little darker than a normal human. But she refused the power here that could save the world, on the grounds that it was too demonic. But earlier in the episode, Buffy ripped brutally into Willow and especially Spike, demanding that they delve into their darker natures for the power that it would give thier cause. Will Buffy's opinion on that change now that she's been offered that choice herself? In the end she confessed to Willow that she fears she'd made a mistake in refusing.
The fear the girls must have is being addressed; the effect of a situation like this on people not able to cope.
...haHA! W/K is so over! And amazingly, I still kinda like Kennedy as a character. Her squealy "I love my job!" was cute.
Also explained:
Spike's poor fighting skills, and some exploration of why he's been sub par in the arena lately. And was that "good for the soul" line creepy, or what? Anyway, I liked Buffy calling him on his hesistation, and I liked him pointing out that she was being a hypocrite, telling him the killer is what she wants when it was the killer that she condemned so ferociously last year. But Buffy is right too; he offered himself up for the Slayer's use, and the Slayer has no need for someone who won't fight. I like Spike comment about the soul being a "private" issue--I've also been wondering if his whole life story was just going to be bandied around when it was really quite a traumatic experience.
I even liked Andrew. His flame factor is growing even more and more with every episode.
The two Wood/Spike moments. I'm irrationally pleased by these--I wasn't sure how I wnated it to play out. But it's playing out great. Male posturing! Hunky male posturing! And Buffy not two feet away, prepared to kick both their rears.
Speaking of the duster; it's such a costume. It's just like the blue shirt, and I have a feeling its not going to once Spike admits he took it from Robin's mother's cold dead body. But then, Buffy said she wanted Killer!Spike, so that's what William/Spike is going to give her. I think that Spike did need to start fighting for real, but I also think Buffy needs to stop trying to make Spike into someone else. Even now, she's trying to shape him into what she wants, like she always has. I hope that by the end of this--- after the First, and Wood, and everything, that Buffy just accepts him, as he is. And I hope that by then Spike knows and accepts himself, as well.
I liked Willow chanting and yelling in English instead of Latin. It seems to me that once you get to a certain level, it would be the power that makes it happen (like she said), so at that point the words she uses aren't significant, its the intent behind them. If you're doing this all with your own strength of mind, does the way you speak really mean anything? Power of mind has no language; or rather, it is the same language for everyone.
I think this episode had sort of an indirect shippiness. I'm sure some Spike-only fan is going to scoff and whine "But she was meeeeeean to him!!!" But her comments did nothing but once more ennunciate the difference between Spike and Wood, Angel and Riley, vampire companions and human companions.
Spike was acting weak, convincing himself not be much stronger than a human, than Buffy's "new demon fighter." However, that's not what Buffy needs and it's not what Buffy wants. She needs partner, and she needs that partner to be strong.
Wood will never be strong enough for her. And when Buffy finally accepts that, and when she finally stops trying to turn Spike into the vampire she hated yet respected because she thinks that's the only was she can accept him in her life, she'll realize that in him she has what she truly wants in a life partner. A person with demon strength, like herself, and a human soul, like herself.
On Buffy's reaction speech:
Well, I think its about time.
She wasn't out of line at all. Refusing to tolerate the cowardice of Chloe or Annabelle.
All the seriousness we've been seeing on AtS-- the constant tensenes, the bone-deep knowledge of all the characters that the world will end if they don't act and they're holding on by their fingertips... that awareness is finally sinking in with the Sunnydale gang.
It's sinking in that this isn't a game for children, this is a horrible, evil, nightmarish world they're in, and it's going to kill them. They're really, really going to die. And if they want to prove their worth as human beings before they choke, they're going to do whatever it takes to ensure the survival of the the human world until their very last breath is ripped from their throats.
Buffy's realizing that confidence may give the potentials strength, but won't spur them into action. So--- maybe fear will. Buffy's live a life of fear and pain and harsh truth; she should know better than anyone. Her point was valid: this isn't summer camp or a witness protection program; she won't tolerate a house full of victims. To do so is not in the Slayer's interest (her concern is saving the world, and babysitting does not accomplish that), and moreover it's not in Buffy's personality. Buffy's a fighter who has spent her whole life surrounding herself with other fighters. The ones without usable supernatural power (Xander, Oz, Dawn) still had the fighter spirit she has. And suddenly she's surrounded by victims, victims she's responsible for, and she's sick of it. Now she's going to do everything she can to make them fighters, because if they're too scared then she can't use them. Just like she has no use for a Spike or a Willow who are too afraid of themselves to be that kind of fighter again.
I really think that Buffy's speech showed that saving the world is more important to her than saving the lives of these girls. Which must be a hard lesson for them, because they came to Sunnydale believing she would protect them. This is an interesting change from season 5, when Buffy didn't care about the world, she only cared about Dawn. In GiD, Buffy reminded me a lot of Giles. And that's to her credit.
On suicide and how it is presented by ME:
Was Buffy too callous about Chloe's suicide, Annabelle's death? I guess it depends on what the message on suicide it is they wanted. I think the message ME gave on suicide in this episode was that it was the coward's way out.
Is that what suicide is for everyone who does it? Is that what suicide is for each person who views the show? Chances are, no. Some people rationalize suicide. Some people accept it. Some people ignore it, and some people condemn it. Here, it seems ME is using Buffy's character to condemn suicide.
More specifically-- they're condeming the suicide of someone who has a responsibility to others that requires their being alive.
What's really interesting is contrasting that with Buffy's sacrifice in The Gift, which has serious suicidal overtones. Buffy's suicide served her duty to her people though; Buffy's suicide had a positive purpose-- did Chloe's? Did not Chloe have a responsibility to stay alive? She knew that the more potentials who died in this crucial time period, the closer the Slayer line was to becoming exinct, which would indirectly affect all humans.
Whether you agree or not, I think that was the point ME was trying to make. That commiting suicide out of fear is selfish, and is not acceptable.
For the most part, I agree with that message. I think ME is right to condemn suicide in a show that is seen by so many teenagers. I'm not so convinced on Annabelle's death-- hers wasn't like Chloe's. She died more from ignorance, and I chock her up on the list of 'Sunnydale's Unfortunate Victims Of Bad Luck And Inability To Cope With The Reality Of The Hellmouth.'
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no subject
Date: 2003-02-18 11:23 pm (UTC)I think that Spike did need to start fighting for real, but I also think Buffy needs to stop trying to make Spike into someone else. Even now, she's trying to shape him into what she wants, like she always has. I hope that by the end of this--- after the First, and Wood, and everything, that Buffy just accepts him, as he is.
The thing about Buffy is, she does this to *everyone*. There's a selfishness to her that I think she has to have as a Slayer (because she often doesn't have time for anything else). With Angel, with Riley, with her friends, she's often either seen of them only what she's wanted to see or tried to change the rest (sometimes in good ways, sometimes in bad). She's very much a "if this isn't working, let's change it" sort of person when she has to be (when she's not Denial!Buffy) and when she's like that, she's never been above saying, "this isn't working about you for me, change it". The difference comes in when she's saying that it's not working for her as a person versus not working for her as the Slayer, as the "boss" in the fight, as their boss. As a person, I think Buffy very much accepts Spike as who he is now. As the Slayer, well, she was assigning jobs, passing out responsibilities, and Spike's requires that he get back some of that fire she used to fight in him because the job at hand requires it, not because she, as a woman requires it.
Ugh, sorry, running on a bit here. I've been growling at all the whiny posts on CW blaming mean ole Buffy for yelling at poor, defenseless Spikey. Bah. If Spike didn't think what she was saying had validity, he would not have gone along with it.
It's interesting that you mentioned that Buffy reminded you of Giles. I was thinking the same thing while watching the episode. The other character's reactions also reminded me of the reactions Giles once got. I'm looking forward to seeing how this will all play out.
Re:
Date: 2003-02-18 11:34 pm (UTC)Total agreement there. Buffy Summers: we love her for her issues.
. I've been growling at all the whiny posts on CW blaming mean ole Buffy for yelling at poor, defenseless Spikey.
Ooh, that's annoyed me too. I've come to realize I really dislike fans who like Spike but hate Buffy, and yet claim to be B/S shippers. They're the same ones who will give a fnatastic episode like "Selfless" a mere 5 rating because "it didn't have enough Spike." ::shudder:: Such a bloody irritant.
It's interesting that you mentioned that Buffy reminded you of Giles. I was thinking the same thing while watching the episode.
I think it was because Giles has always put the world above everyone else, even Buffy. By the end of season 5 he was willing to do this horrible thing-- make this horrible sacrifice of his own humanity-- if it meant that Dawn's death would ensure the survival of the world. Buffy's starting to show some of that maturity here; the understanding that war=death, and 'you can't win 'em all.' Last time (Glory) Buffy saved everyone by giving of herself; that's not an option here. Which means that Buffy's going to have to see some of her people fall this time. And she's growing up, and facing that fact head on.
no subject
Date: 2003-02-18 11:45 pm (UTC)Very, very true. I also think it ties in with what Buffy told Giles, re: Spike's chip, that you can't beat evil with evil. I wonder if that's the theme we're hitting for the end of the season, and if that's what will make Buffy's choice not to accept the demon power the "right" choice. In a lot of ways, that could be seen as the major difference between Buffy and Giles in regards to The Fight (caps, of course)- Giles is willing to go Ripper if he has to, to go against his heart and do evil to achieve good. Buffy is not, and does not believe in it. As Giles told her in Spiral, what he'd always admired most about her was that she followed her heart at all costs- something he would not, maybe cannot let himself do when it comes down to the good of the world versus his own goodness. That'll be where she'll grow beyond him, as all children do their parents. She'll have to and the more I think about it, the more it's been inevitable from the very beginning (and that just makes me, well, chipper, 'cause how cool is it that Joss and co have kept this dynamic consistant for that long?).
no subject
Date: 2003-02-19 08:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-02-19 09:50 am (UTC)Only, the world as it is in Sunnydale IS unpleasant now. It's horrible, and the only way they can beat it is to find new abilities and strengths inside themselves. I was kind of shocked initially when Buffy went after everyone with claws out, but the longer that scene went on, the more I realized that this was truly the new Buffy, and she was trying to make these characters the new versions of themselves -- the ones who are required now to fight this evil. I think we may see that in Giles, as well, when he comes back.
I really like what you have to say. I'm reading very carefully right now because it seems like everyone is just so absurdly negative right now at a time when I'm enjoying myself.
Re:
Date: 2003-02-19 01:27 pm (UTC)I hadn't thought about that; I'm so new to watching Angel that I don't know a lot about the seasonal character arcs. You've definitely hit somethign thoguh with the fact that people don't want to watch their characters change, like they have on BTVS.
I think we may see that in Giles, as well, when he comes back
I hope so. We saw some of it when he cursed everyon for thinking about frivolous things like dating when the end of the world is coming. And he was right.
I really like what you have to say. I'm reading very carefully right now because it seems like everyone is just so absurdly negative right now at a time when I'm enjoying myself.
Thanks. I'm having a fun time watching the show right now too, and I think that's the most important thing about it all.