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Apr. 30th, 2003 11:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
timepiececlockUgh. I don't wanna. I don't wanna.
So I'm going to put it off, and talk about TV instead.
UPN last night.
Not doing a recap. Can’t think about in that way right now. Rather, my reactions to Empty Place:
"I am the law."
Oh, I just knew that would come back and bite her in the ass.
And it looks like it hurt pretty bad too.
So, they’re kicking her out? Oh, wait, I know this! I know this! And afterwards she’ll go hide out in a dirty motel and Spike will come and they’ll have extremely angsty make-up sex.
Someone ficced this.![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
wisteria, anniesj maybe. I’m not sure. Maybe it was herself_nyc? But someone ficced this. To be honest, I read it at the time and thought it was an excuse to get Buffy and Spike in a place where they could have subsequent confrontations & previously mentioned angsty make-up sex. I never really considered something like them throwing her out as leader for incompetence would actually happen. Not on the show where "friendship is everything."
Ok. Um, what is the logic here? So they stop taking orders from her. I understand their reasoning for that. Why the hell are they kicking her out of her HOUSE? What gives them the right? Why the fuck doesn’t Buffy say "If you don’t want to be here, you leave!" It’s her fucking house.
And Dawn. Wow. What happened to the Dawn that I’ve spent two seasons liking? Dawn may be growing up, but she has no right to make any decisions here. She has no power. She doesn’t even have Potential for future power. When it comes to right to make decisions, Dawn has no grounds to stand on. She’s not special. And in Buffyverse, you have to be special to make decisions, because it’s all about power. Dawn is not a Power in this situation. What ever gives her the right to make Buffy leave—and how could she? Why doesn’t she say "Buffy, I don’t support your current decisions, and I won’t fight for you, but I’m your last family member so I will stay by your side." It’s not like Dawn would cost the main group any valuable resource by going with her sister. By acting like a sister, a last sister, instead of another minion who’s unhappy with current leadership. Family isn’t something you can brush off like that.
When all the others turned on her, Dawn should have been the one to stay by her side, even if voicing her disagreement. That’s what makes family different from friendships. It’s not optional. It makes me sad to think that Spike would have followed Buffy out the door if he’d been there (because he couldn’t have done it any other way—we’ve seen enough by now to know his loyalty is to her always, rocks back or not), and that even Faith tried—Faith who has far less reason than anyone in that room to reach out to Buffy—but Dawn did not. Her only family member pushed her away. Her sister, who spent all last season begging Buffy for love and attention, who has professed to be the one Buffy ought to trust above all others, has turned her away.
The lasting emotional damage that act will inflict aside, what would Dawn do if Buffy, kicked out of house and home, walking down the street, ran into Caleb again and was killed right then, having no back up to help her? Why do they think that wouldn’t be likely to happen as soon as Buffy turned the street corner?
Anya, I liked in the beginning. And I was totally with her on the "You’re not better than us" thing. But I feel she owes Buffy more loyalty than she’s been giving her this season. And seriously, Buffy may not have earned it the right to be the Slayer, but she has paid for her power several times over. Anya was out of line saying Buffy didn't deserve that power. Six years ago, maybe-- but not at this point.
Also, this whole "lucky" thing-- I'm not sure how true that is. Because honestly, I've always thought that they were telling us that it means something to be Chosen, that it can seem "random" from a guessing perspective, but it's not. That it takes a type of personality and a certain strength of will to be the Slayer. A strength of will that not even all the potentials have. Kendra had it, Faith has it. Being chosen isn't random and isn't a mistake. You have to be fundamentally good inside, you have to be strong, and you have to be able to understand the darkness you fight and be able to live with it all around you. I don't think everyone can do that. And maybe that doesn't make the chosen "better", but it makes her different. For better or worse, Buffy isn't just like all the rest only a little bit luckier-- Buffy and Faith are different. Some of those girls are different too, and that difference will manifest itself if Faith dies, and the Powers That Be look down on the world and say "That's the one. She will be the Slayer."
Xander just lost an eye. I can see why he’s upset.
Giles. Don’t talk to me about Giles.
Amazingly, I still like Faith. I don’t think it was her intention to make a coup of Buffy’s leadership, and I don’t think she’s earned that trust yet either. She’s not proven herself worthy of that kind of leadership. But hopefully she’ll grow into it. Hopefully they have time enough to let her grow into that role before it all comes down. It took Buffy years to grow up. Faith now has 3 weeks.
In fact, the only people I like out of the lot of them at the moment are Faith, Buffy, Andrew, and Spike.
Willow… I don’t know what to say about Willow. She didn’t do much here, and in my mind that speaks to her detriment.
Rona was right to say it’s not about Spike, it’s about Buffy. But everything else she needs to be smacked for. And I used to like her, too.
Wood. I liked you again during the conversation with Faith. Now I hate you again. You’re not Buffy’s friend, you never really have been, and I’m glad you stopped pretending. So much for believing in her ability to win and believing in her strength as a Slayer. The minute another Slayer comes along that actually behaves how you want your ideal vision of a Slayer to be, you lose all that faith in Buffy? You’re a scumbag. I hope you get eaten. Devoured, man. From beneath. I hear Tremors worm demons like weasels as much as puppies.
Dawn. Again, what the fuck is up with Dawn? No, girlie, it’s not your house. It won’t be your house unless Buffy dies or you turn 18 in the next 3 weeks and go to court for it.
And Giles. I know I said I didn’t want to talk about Giles, but jeez… the guy’s more of a burden right now that a benefit. He won’t support Buffy, he won’t take charge himself—what the fuck is he doing then, besides undermining the present leader?
I’m still shocked that Buffy agreed to leave. I can’t grasp why she didn’t make them (except Dawn) leave, why she thinks they have some right to live in to her private home beyond her graciously allowing them. The Summers house is no better place for a headquarters than any other private building--- in fact there’s probably a lot better places to work out of. They are only there because Buffy was there. And if they don’t want to accept her leadership as the Slayer, they shouldn’t be in her house.
GAAAHHH!! I know I’m repeating myself, but I’m trying to understand why Buffy allowed herself to get kicked out of her home. I honestly don’t get it. Yeah, the bad leadership thing, I get that. I even think it’s warranted from one perspective. But not demanding she leave her own home, her mother’s house. These people have no moral right to demand that of her, and Buffy has no reason to give into it so easily. It’s her frelling house, and it would be even if she lost all her superpowers and never fought another monster again. The house has nothing to do with being the leader. It’s not the Slayer’s house, it’s BUFFY SUMMER’S HOUSE.
So, why, I ask? Is Buffy so demoralized by losing the girls in the vineyard, so shaken in her belief of her own worth that she’d let that happen to her? Buffy’s not the kind of person who would give in easily on something like this—I would have expected her to make them leave if they won’t accept her. That’s what a forceful, independent, stubborn person like Buffy would do. Hell, that’s what MOST people would do. When an ultimatum is made, the person who owns the house is the one who gets to stay, and it’s the disagreeing parties who have to leave. If Buffy is so shaken that she’s allowing them to talk her out of her own home, she really is completely falling apart.
---
Ok, emotional reaction over, let’s talk about the logistics of this group decision:
It’s all about the power. Who has it, who doesn’t.
There are four People Of Power in the summers home right now. Buffy, Faith, Spike, and Willow. Everyone else is a human playing at the superheroes game, at best a weak mystics-dabbler like Giles, Andrew, Anya.
Regardless of who leads the group, all four are vitally needed to be the force of the group, the executive side, and even the four of them is not enough right now.
The Scooby gang just cut off one of their own legs in shutting out a Slayer. Not a hand, a freaking leg, the strongest of their limbs, of which there are only TWO. And now there’s one. How do they think they are any better off now? Idiots. If they don’t want her to lead, fine. But kicking her out entirely is the stupidest thing they could possibly have done. She should go find Spike, and they should skip town and leave the group of fools to their own bloody self-created quagmire & eventual demise.
Was Buffy making wrong decisions? Maybe. Probably. Certainly, going back in is the wrong decision. And maybe she’s not right to lead this party anymore. But leadership aside and anger/resentment aside, removing Buffy entirely from the equation is a mistake, and Giles is three times a fool for letting it happen right before his eyes. He’s always been a pragmatic person; now he’s letting his emotions block him from the obvious fact that they can’t afford to lose the firepower a Slayer provides. Also, they can’t afford to the risk of losing the firepower Spike provides. If Spike chooses to follow Buffy into this "exile" (and I don’t doubt for a second that he will choose her), then the group has lost HALF THEIR POWER in one blow. Two out of four, gone. The oldest and most experienced two.
These guys don’t need Caleb; they’re handicapping themselves just fine.
I find it interesting that Buffy said Giles had sent away the one person who was unconditionally watching her back—and god, she was right. I didn’t see that coming, but she was right. For all Giles said "We’re all here for you," when the chips fell (and boy did they), none of her previous friends or even her family had her back. And despite any lingering possible anger at Buffy we all know that Spike, had he been there, would have supported Buffy unconditionally, and would not have let her walk out the door alone.
I wonder what Andrew would have done. He seems to have placed a lot of his faith in Buffy and her mission—using her specifically as his moral compass for what is “good” much the way Spike of season 5 and 6 did. Would he have given into peer pressure and agreed with the others, or would he have tried to stand up for his naive ideal of a perfect hero, permanently personified in his perspective of Buffy?
What, I ask, is up with these people? Who wrote this episode? Why is all this happening?
ETA: I laughed harder at Anya's speech about the make-up end-of-the-world sex and the girls reaction of moving off the cot and Andrew's notetaking than I have in a long time. That was wonderful.
Also, the Spike/Andrew thing was very funny. A great mimic of the scene with Spike and Dawn in Bargaining-- the same football helmut, even! And funny how Andrew is probably at least 20--- within two years of the Scooby Gang, and Giles treats him like he's 16. And he acts sixteen. "It's not the meatballs...It's the fundamental lack of respect!" ::snicker:: Andrew, I feel for you there. You can't imagine how many arguments in my home have occurred over claiming of food via paper labels. But there is such a thing as timing. Thought his glare at an oblivious Faith was wonderful.
The thing with Spike reading the ancient words-- cool too. It's nice to see something that supports earlier season 2 canon that Spike is not an idiot as Giles calls him, that he does know stuff about demons and black magic and that he is older with more history than anyone but Anya. Also, the interrogation scene. Spike was cool and Andrew was stupidly amusing. In the best way.
Overall, I give this epsiode high marks for quality, script, acting and direction. And I give it a whoppping phenominally low mark for logic. But then, I don't know where they're going with this anti-Buffy thing, so maybe it's too quick to judge on that.
Boy, I can't wait to see how Spike and Andrew react to this. They better not deny us THAT confrontation, dammit!
So I'm going to put it off, and talk about TV instead.
UPN last night.
Not doing a recap. Can’t think about in that way right now. Rather, my reactions to Empty Place:
"I am the law."
Oh, I just knew that would come back and bite her in the ass.
And it looks like it hurt pretty bad too.
So, they’re kicking her out? Oh, wait, I know this! I know this! And afterwards she’ll go hide out in a dirty motel and Spike will come and they’ll have extremely angsty make-up sex.
Someone ficced this.
wisteria, anniesj maybe. I’m not sure. Maybe it was herself_nyc? But someone ficced this. To be honest, I read it at the time and thought it was an excuse to get Buffy and Spike in a place where they could have subsequent confrontations & previously mentioned angsty make-up sex. I never really considered something like them throwing her out as leader for incompetence would actually happen. Not on the show where "friendship is everything."Ok. Um, what is the logic here? So they stop taking orders from her. I understand their reasoning for that. Why the hell are they kicking her out of her HOUSE? What gives them the right? Why the fuck doesn’t Buffy say "If you don’t want to be here, you leave!" It’s her fucking house.
And Dawn. Wow. What happened to the Dawn that I’ve spent two seasons liking? Dawn may be growing up, but she has no right to make any decisions here. She has no power. She doesn’t even have Potential for future power. When it comes to right to make decisions, Dawn has no grounds to stand on. She’s not special. And in Buffyverse, you have to be special to make decisions, because it’s all about power. Dawn is not a Power in this situation. What ever gives her the right to make Buffy leave—and how could she? Why doesn’t she say "Buffy, I don’t support your current decisions, and I won’t fight for you, but I’m your last family member so I will stay by your side." It’s not like Dawn would cost the main group any valuable resource by going with her sister. By acting like a sister, a last sister, instead of another minion who’s unhappy with current leadership. Family isn’t something you can brush off like that.
When all the others turned on her, Dawn should have been the one to stay by her side, even if voicing her disagreement. That’s what makes family different from friendships. It’s not optional. It makes me sad to think that Spike would have followed Buffy out the door if he’d been there (because he couldn’t have done it any other way—we’ve seen enough by now to know his loyalty is to her always, rocks back or not), and that even Faith tried—Faith who has far less reason than anyone in that room to reach out to Buffy—but Dawn did not. Her only family member pushed her away. Her sister, who spent all last season begging Buffy for love and attention, who has professed to be the one Buffy ought to trust above all others, has turned her away.
The lasting emotional damage that act will inflict aside, what would Dawn do if Buffy, kicked out of house and home, walking down the street, ran into Caleb again and was killed right then, having no back up to help her? Why do they think that wouldn’t be likely to happen as soon as Buffy turned the street corner?
Anya, I liked in the beginning. And I was totally with her on the "You’re not better than us" thing. But I feel she owes Buffy more loyalty than she’s been giving her this season. And seriously, Buffy may not have earned it the right to be the Slayer, but she has paid for her power several times over. Anya was out of line saying Buffy didn't deserve that power. Six years ago, maybe-- but not at this point.
Also, this whole "lucky" thing-- I'm not sure how true that is. Because honestly, I've always thought that they were telling us that it means something to be Chosen, that it can seem "random" from a guessing perspective, but it's not. That it takes a type of personality and a certain strength of will to be the Slayer. A strength of will that not even all the potentials have. Kendra had it, Faith has it. Being chosen isn't random and isn't a mistake. You have to be fundamentally good inside, you have to be strong, and you have to be able to understand the darkness you fight and be able to live with it all around you. I don't think everyone can do that. And maybe that doesn't make the chosen "better", but it makes her different. For better or worse, Buffy isn't just like all the rest only a little bit luckier-- Buffy and Faith are different. Some of those girls are different too, and that difference will manifest itself if Faith dies, and the Powers That Be look down on the world and say "That's the one. She will be the Slayer."
Xander just lost an eye. I can see why he’s upset.
Giles. Don’t talk to me about Giles.
Amazingly, I still like Faith. I don’t think it was her intention to make a coup of Buffy’s leadership, and I don’t think she’s earned that trust yet either. She’s not proven herself worthy of that kind of leadership. But hopefully she’ll grow into it. Hopefully they have time enough to let her grow into that role before it all comes down. It took Buffy years to grow up. Faith now has 3 weeks.
In fact, the only people I like out of the lot of them at the moment are Faith, Buffy, Andrew, and Spike.
Willow… I don’t know what to say about Willow. She didn’t do much here, and in my mind that speaks to her detriment.
Rona was right to say it’s not about Spike, it’s about Buffy. But everything else she needs to be smacked for. And I used to like her, too.
Wood. I liked you again during the conversation with Faith. Now I hate you again. You’re not Buffy’s friend, you never really have been, and I’m glad you stopped pretending. So much for believing in her ability to win and believing in her strength as a Slayer. The minute another Slayer comes along that actually behaves how you want your ideal vision of a Slayer to be, you lose all that faith in Buffy? You’re a scumbag. I hope you get eaten. Devoured, man. From beneath. I hear Tremors worm demons like weasels as much as puppies.
Dawn. Again, what the fuck is up with Dawn? No, girlie, it’s not your house. It won’t be your house unless Buffy dies or you turn 18 in the next 3 weeks and go to court for it.
And Giles. I know I said I didn’t want to talk about Giles, but jeez… the guy’s more of a burden right now that a benefit. He won’t support Buffy, he won’t take charge himself—what the fuck is he doing then, besides undermining the present leader?
I’m still shocked that Buffy agreed to leave. I can’t grasp why she didn’t make them (except Dawn) leave, why she thinks they have some right to live in to her private home beyond her graciously allowing them. The Summers house is no better place for a headquarters than any other private building--- in fact there’s probably a lot better places to work out of. They are only there because Buffy was there. And if they don’t want to accept her leadership as the Slayer, they shouldn’t be in her house.
GAAAHHH!! I know I’m repeating myself, but I’m trying to understand why Buffy allowed herself to get kicked out of her home. I honestly don’t get it. Yeah, the bad leadership thing, I get that. I even think it’s warranted from one perspective. But not demanding she leave her own home, her mother’s house. These people have no moral right to demand that of her, and Buffy has no reason to give into it so easily. It’s her frelling house, and it would be even if she lost all her superpowers and never fought another monster again. The house has nothing to do with being the leader. It’s not the Slayer’s house, it’s BUFFY SUMMER’S HOUSE.
So, why, I ask? Is Buffy so demoralized by losing the girls in the vineyard, so shaken in her belief of her own worth that she’d let that happen to her? Buffy’s not the kind of person who would give in easily on something like this—I would have expected her to make them leave if they won’t accept her. That’s what a forceful, independent, stubborn person like Buffy would do. Hell, that’s what MOST people would do. When an ultimatum is made, the person who owns the house is the one who gets to stay, and it’s the disagreeing parties who have to leave. If Buffy is so shaken that she’s allowing them to talk her out of her own home, she really is completely falling apart.
---
Ok, emotional reaction over, let’s talk about the logistics of this group decision:
It’s all about the power. Who has it, who doesn’t.
There are four People Of Power in the summers home right now. Buffy, Faith, Spike, and Willow. Everyone else is a human playing at the superheroes game, at best a weak mystics-dabbler like Giles, Andrew, Anya.
Regardless of who leads the group, all four are vitally needed to be the force of the group, the executive side, and even the four of them is not enough right now.
The Scooby gang just cut off one of their own legs in shutting out a Slayer. Not a hand, a freaking leg, the strongest of their limbs, of which there are only TWO. And now there’s one. How do they think they are any better off now? Idiots. If they don’t want her to lead, fine. But kicking her out entirely is the stupidest thing they could possibly have done. She should go find Spike, and they should skip town and leave the group of fools to their own bloody self-created quagmire & eventual demise.
Was Buffy making wrong decisions? Maybe. Probably. Certainly, going back in is the wrong decision. And maybe she’s not right to lead this party anymore. But leadership aside and anger/resentment aside, removing Buffy entirely from the equation is a mistake, and Giles is three times a fool for letting it happen right before his eyes. He’s always been a pragmatic person; now he’s letting his emotions block him from the obvious fact that they can’t afford to lose the firepower a Slayer provides. Also, they can’t afford to the risk of losing the firepower Spike provides. If Spike chooses to follow Buffy into this "exile" (and I don’t doubt for a second that he will choose her), then the group has lost HALF THEIR POWER in one blow. Two out of four, gone. The oldest and most experienced two.
These guys don’t need Caleb; they’re handicapping themselves just fine.
I find it interesting that Buffy said Giles had sent away the one person who was unconditionally watching her back—and god, she was right. I didn’t see that coming, but she was right. For all Giles said "We’re all here for you," when the chips fell (and boy did they), none of her previous friends or even her family had her back. And despite any lingering possible anger at Buffy we all know that Spike, had he been there, would have supported Buffy unconditionally, and would not have let her walk out the door alone.
I wonder what Andrew would have done. He seems to have placed a lot of his faith in Buffy and her mission—using her specifically as his moral compass for what is “good” much the way Spike of season 5 and 6 did. Would he have given into peer pressure and agreed with the others, or would he have tried to stand up for his naive ideal of a perfect hero, permanently personified in his perspective of Buffy?
What, I ask, is up with these people? Who wrote this episode? Why is all this happening?
ETA: I laughed harder at Anya's speech about the make-up end-of-the-world sex and the girls reaction of moving off the cot and Andrew's notetaking than I have in a long time. That was wonderful.
Also, the Spike/Andrew thing was very funny. A great mimic of the scene with Spike and Dawn in Bargaining-- the same football helmut, even! And funny how Andrew is probably at least 20--- within two years of the Scooby Gang, and Giles treats him like he's 16. And he acts sixteen. "It's not the meatballs...It's the fundamental lack of respect!" ::snicker:: Andrew, I feel for you there. You can't imagine how many arguments in my home have occurred over claiming of food via paper labels. But there is such a thing as timing. Thought his glare at an oblivious Faith was wonderful.
The thing with Spike reading the ancient words-- cool too. It's nice to see something that supports earlier season 2 canon that Spike is not an idiot as Giles calls him, that he does know stuff about demons and black magic and that he is older with more history than anyone but Anya. Also, the interrogation scene. Spike was cool and Andrew was stupidly amusing. In the best way.
Overall, I give this epsiode high marks for quality, script, acting and direction. And I give it a whoppping phenominally low mark for logic. But then, I don't know where they're going with this anti-Buffy thing, so maybe it's too quick to judge on that.
Boy, I can't wait to see how Spike and Andrew react to this. They better not deny us THAT confrontation, dammit!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Re:
Date: 2003-04-30 01:28 pm (UTC)OMG! I totally forgot about that! You're so right. Gah, now I have a whole nother way to look at this! Still think she was so wrong though.
I think the hospital scene cinched the deal and made their support for her waver.
Hmm. You're right. I was moved by the hospital scene, but then I sort of forgot about it when this stuff started going down. But Buffy leaving them-- Buffy not acting like the friend they need her to be-- I can see where that would seriously affect their perspective.
Also, it makes me wonder if thing have really changed at all from last season. That maybe their happy frienship in the beginning of the year was just them fooling themselves that they could go back to the way things were. And now it's all coming out again, this time with Buffy being framed as the bad one.
And she's the only one who went after Buffy...and wow because hello to the bad history between them.
Yeah, bully for her. I love her right now, and feel sorry for her a bit too. But of all the people in that room she's the only one whose reactions & motivations I understood and felt to be "right" moral behavior. Her taking the girls to the bronze was stupid (evidenced by her having to be saved by them), but in the meeting she was the only person worth listening to, and the only person with the ability to back up her words.