fandom thoughts-- how much do you care about the minor characters?

[timepiececlock]

So, I've been reading and skimming past fanfic in the HP fandom for a few months now, as well as going to the huge general HP forum Fictionalley.org. And something continues to baffle me about HP fandom that I haven't noticed in Bufffy fandom, or the various anime fandoms I'm familiar with. What I'm talking about is the extreme and wide-spread familiarity with the very minor, minor characters of canon.

There are stories I've seen written-- often romance-- about Harry Potter characters that appeared once in the books, or were throw-away names, or had a single line three books ago. Characters whose name I didn't even remember reading, they were so minor. And then you have the people who write fics about Harry's parents as teenagers, characters we know very little about, and only witnessed one real scene of (through Snape's slanted perspective) in the last book. And yet the fanfic authors run with it, inventing wildly different characterizations that eventually combine to turn into a sort of fanon idea of what these people were, that has nothing to do with the actual books or films.

Now, this is not a bad thing. But it is kind of amazing to me. It'd be the Buffy equivalent of writing a 35,000 word romance between the blond girl eating breakfast in Buffy's kitchen in Storyteller and the boy who exploded at school for not getting that foot massage.

You have the main characters in a show (I'm leaving out most of the villians).
In BtVS, that was Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Xander, Spike, Giles, and Anya.
In HP that's Harry, Hermione, and Ron.

Then you have the important sub-characters.
In BtVS that's Tara (arguably a main character), Riley, Robin, Kennedy, Andrew, Faith, Joyce, Oz, Cordelia (she got demoted after season 3);
in HP that's Dumbledore, Sirius, Snape, Draco, Hagrid, Neville, Ginny, the Weasely family, and now Luna.

Then you get into the signficant minor characters that have some role in supporting/definining the other characters or plot.
BtVS: Jonathon, Ethan Rayne, Amy the Rat, Harmony, Drusilla, Halfrek, Ben, Amanda, Rona, Travers, Snyder, Clem, Jenny Calendar, the First Slayer.
For HP: Lupin, Lucius, Crabbe & Goyle, Cho, McGonagall, Trewlaney (sp?), Cedric, Harry's cousin/family, Dobby.
(I know Lupin is a popular character, but he is less significant than Sirius, so I put him on this level for now.)

Then you stat to get into the even more minor characters:
BtVS: Forrest, Graham, Nancy, D'Hoffren, Rack, Doc, Chloe, Cecily, Holden Webster, Jessy, Percy, Olivia, Nikki the NY Slayer, Glory's minions, the Knights.
HP: real!Moody, Tonks, Harry's parents, Moaning Myrtle, Fudge, Viktor, Percy Weasley, what's-his-name that wanders Hogwarts at night with his malicious cat, Umbridge, Headless Nick, the Centaur who becomes a Professor, Peeves, the beetle-lady reporter, Kreature.

Then we get to the one-liner characters, or names we only hear but never see. The ones that make one scene, or one episode. I can't even remember all of those, and I won't try to list them. Yet, they're often characters I seen written about for HP. (I'm sure I forgot some; I'm hardly a connesieur of HP canon)

I wonder why they have so much interest, when they're hardly there? Is it just that they provide a forum for Self-Insertions? Or is it more like writing original fiction, since you have to basically make up the personality/motivations since its not given in the book? Why is there such a wealth of these fics about minor characters in HP fandom, whereas a fandom like Buffy rarely focuses on them? Not that they never do-- there's definitely fics about Ethan Rayne, or Nikki, or the monks who made Dawn. But overall, they're few and far between. What's different about the fandoms?

Comments

[mrthursday.livejournal.com]

Then you stat to get into the even more minor characters:
BtVS: Forrest, Graham, Nancy, D'Hoffren, Rack, Doc, Chloe, Cecily, Holden Webster, Jessy, Percy, Ophelia (Giles black girlfriend-- wasn't that her name?), Nikki the NY Slayer, Glory's minions, the Knights.

You missed Sid! I object since the ONE piece of fan fic I worte was about him!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Who is Sid, again?

[mrthursday.livejournal.com]

Well he is a REALLY minor character! He was the puppet/ex-demon slayer from the first series.

Someone must like him besides me, because he is a playable character in the new Buffy Computer game!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Oh. Dude, that's, like, more minor than Lydia, the watcher with a crush on Spike.

[mrthursday.livejournal.com]

Yeah but she is not in the computer game is she?
Besides Sid had a episode that revolved round him!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

But Lydia was in TWO episodes!

She died, sure, but still two!

Face it. You cannot beat the numbers, little man. Run, run, while you still can!

[mrthursday.livejournal.com]

Pah! She may have been in two episodes, but she wasn't a mian charter in ether of them. Lets talk screen time, little miss Statistics! See how you like those numbers!

(Incidentally I beat numbers all the time, I'm that kind of man! And less of the little or I'll be forced to reach for my sword..)

Run! Never!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

The real question is, who is more memorable? You had to remind me who Sid was! So HA!

[mrthursday.livejournal.com]

I sense a survey coming on...

(runs off to ask hundreds of Buffy fans which character they can remeber)

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

BWaahahaha. Just try asking the Spike fans. You know who they'll say. And first names only, no descriptions!

[luna-k.livejournal.com]

Ophelia (Giles black girlfriend-- wasn't that her name?)

Olivia. :)

Why is there such a wealth of these fics about minor characters in HP fandom, whereas a fandom like Buffy rarely focuses on them?

Hmm... I'm not sure. I know as a *reader*, I'm usually intrueged when a minor character like Harmony or Glory gets a featured role in a story. I especially like it when they're featured in a good AU in a new, interesting light.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Olivia. :)

Dammit, I was so close! I knew it wasn't quite right.

I know as a *reader*, I'm usually intrueged when a minor character like Harmony or Glory gets a featured role in a story.

I like reading those fics too. But I've found they're not really that common.

there's a very good, brief one here:
http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=534401

[sabrinanymph.livejournal.com]

I hadn't really thought about that before, but you've made a good point. While you'll read about some minor characters in Buffy-verse, you read about them all the time in the Potter-verse. I know my interest in several of the minor characters has perked up a bit since I started RPing at diagonally, but obviously some people felt an interest before that.

Possibly, it's at least partially just the difference between books and television. In TV minor characters get screentime, but very little. In a book, although a minor character may not get many lines about them, perhaps there's something about the medium that draws them in more.

Possibly also, it's Rowling herself. I think that the chapter in OotP that discusses Sirius' family history is an excellent example of how closely all of the wizarding world is related although we may not be aware of it as readers until this point. Who would have guessed that he was related to the Malfoys? Also, Rowling is very likely to throw something in way ahead of when it is relevant and what is a minor, very minor character in one book (for example the mention of Sirius Black and his motorcycle in the first chapter of book one) becomes hugely important in following books (we later learn Sirius is Harry's godfather in PoA).

Personally I'm very curious about Mark Evans, who is possibly a throw away name in the first chapter of OotP, but seeing as how that's Lily's maiden name and that he was mentioned specifically... my guess is it isn't!

Interesting stuff... I'm going to have to ponder this a bit.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I think that the chapter in OotP that discusses Sirius' family history is an excellent example of how closely all of the wizarding world is related although we may not be aware of it as readers until this point.

Yeah. But just to counter that for argument's sake, Sirius is a secondary character, with a lot more development than, say, Padma Patil, who I've seen fics written about but can barely dredge up a a memory of from canon.

Personally I'm very curious about Mark Evans, who is possibly a throw away name in the first chapter of OotP, but seeing as how that's Lily's maiden name and that he was mentioned specifically... my guess is it isn't!

I'm curious about that too, though I didn't notice it until someone in fandom pointed it out.

[bathsweaver.livejournal.com]

Perhaps the difference has to do with the target audience? Though it's enjoyed and read by all ages, HP's target audience is quite a few years younger than BtVS (and most anime?), which encourages younger, less experienced writers who haven't yet learned that self-insertion is generally to be avoided to write fic. And, as you said, minor characters do provide/encourage self-insertion.

It also might owe something to the nature of tv vs. the written word. Very, very minor characters receive far more attention in novels than the random extra on the set of a tv show or movie does, simply because the author purposely draws attention to each and every minor character by even mentioning them, using words written in indelible ink, rather than the fleeting glimpse we get of the extra sitting at the table behind Buffy and the Scoobies at lunch. There aren't any background characters in books, because the author--even when giving them a passing mention as scenery for the main characters--must draw them out of the scenery and into the spotlight: "As she walked down the hall to Potions, Hermione passed by various other students rushing in the opposite direction, one of whom was a girl wearing lopsided purple spectacles and clutching an armful of quills and parchment." Minor characters and extras on tv don't require that same attention from the director, and can appear as a background for the main characters without ever being drawn or singled out from their position in the background. So as we see Buffy and the Scoobies heading to the library to meet with Giles, a girl wearing lopsided purple spectacles clutching pens and binders might be in the background amongst the other students, but we might not even notice her because at the instant she passes on- and off-screen, we are engrossed by Xander, who is in the midst of teasing Willow about her date with Oz.

Anyway, that's my $.02

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Though it's enjoyed and read by all ages, HP's target audience is quite a few years younger than BtVS (and most anime?), which encourages younger, less experienced writers who haven't yet learned that self-insertion is generally to be avoided to write fic.

Good point; the audience is younger. At least, to begin with. From the way things are progressing the 7th will be rated R, most likely. Though you're wrong about anime-- there is no set target for the anime/manga audience. There's so many genres that are spread out and made for every range of audience you get from any other medium.

Minor characters and extras on tv don't require that same attention from the director, and can appear as a background for the main characters without ever being drawn or singled out from their position in the background.

And excellent point! It does seem much more concrete in text... the concreteness like that for films is only found in dialogue, or in particularly specific film tricks done to focus on someone or their actions.

[kimera.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that in HP fandom too. The "biggest" minor character seems to be Blaise Zabini, mostly because no one can agree whether they're a boy or a girl. There are actual flame wars devoted to the subject and everything. Kinda weird, imo.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I asked about that once. Apparently it was a name that was said by the sorting house in book 1, but it was never stated if the student was male or female. So now its like a fanon in-joke or fad or something to include him/her in your story, boy or girl, sometimes even as a kid who changes sexes monthly the way a werewofl changes from human and back.

[vehiclesshockme.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that in HP fics as well. Actually the majority of fics I stumble across are James and Lily.

I don't know what it isn't as common in Buffy-verse. I for one, love Jonathan and have written about him once and plan on doing it again in the future.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but if you compare them, even Johnathon has more devlopment than Harry's parents (and you can fit a lot of material into both 7 seasons and 5 books), has shown up in many more scenes, and had a lot more dialogue, even for a minor character. The James/Lily thing surprises me because although they're talked about a lot, we've only REALLY seen them the one time. But people write hoards of stuff about them. And about characters even more minor. It just... baffles me.