I'd like to pose a question to the masses of LJdom

[timepiececlock]

Is it possible to have a straightforward discussion of the validity of slash as a character ship (not a fandom ship), without having people get upset?

Sometimes I'd like to sit down with yaoi (slash) fans of Gundam Wing and debate with them why Heero and Duo are not gay, but Quatre and Trowa might be. Or with Highlander, why I do think Methos did it with Byron, but not with Duncan. Or the canon-based exptrapolation of Spike/Angel versus Spike/Xander-- or, if one were so inclined, why none of those work and everyone is straight unless explicitly and irrevicably stated otherwise, or vice versa.

But it seems that slash discussions between people who disagree on whether a slash pairing is valid as a "conventional" couple instead of an unconvention/fandom-based one, always go badly-- and then no one ever really gets to hear the other side's reasons.

Is it just that it's an argument best had in person, where you can read each other's expressions and not take offense so easily?

Do people censor themselves and not try to talk about it, for fear of starting an unintended argument?

Is there a way to say "I don't believe in your ship, you don't believe in mine, let's talk about it and explore why" without the conversation eventually getting bitter?

Do slash fans and het fans even want to have discussion and debate about it?

Or is it like putting Pro-Life-ers in a room with Pro-choice-ers and telling them to talk about only abortion: there will be blood and vitriol no matter how good your intentions?

Comments

kinda sleepy so..

[wickedprincess3.livejournal.com]

Do people censor themselves and not try to talk about it, for fear of starting an unintended argument?
Yes, the number of times I just get up and turn the computer off and walk away far outwiegh the times I engage. Why? No matter how many times I say "I realize Spike/Willow, S/A isn't canon but I can exptrapolate from the canon that..." it's not gonna change the other person's mind, just like no matter how many times someone says to me "Well I think Spike/Buffy is a great romance because..." I'm probably gonna nod and blink.

I think these conversation can happen, but there's too much bad blood a lot of times. For example if you say that you're a Harry/Ginny shipper in Potterfandom peoeple (or IME) look at you like you're a psycho cause of the infamous psycho therefore non H/G shippers are put on the defensive (same goes with Ducks, Kittens, Slashers, whatever) I think the bad apples tend to taint the way the rest of the fandom views a ship therefore whether they intend to or not when engaging in debate the think "Well this person is a Spike fan so they have to be off thier nut."

Also I know with slash theres the feeling that often comes of up a slasher having to explain themselves and it can feel like you're dumping your underwear drawer out for fandom to see since that is part of sexuality.

Under controlled and modded circumstances I think these discussions could happen but in fandom? *sigh* I don't find it all that likely.

Or maybe *I'm* just fucking insane.

Re: kinda sleepy so..

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I hope you sleep well, then, because I don't think you're totally insane. :)

I think the bad apples tend to taint the way the rest of the fandom views a ship therefore whether they intend to or not when engaging in debate the think "Well this person is a Spike fan so they have to be off thier nut."

I can definitely see that being an issue. It is hard to go into any kind of discussion like that without bias, even unfair bias that you don't like to think you have.

Also I know with slash theres the feeling that often comes of up a slasher having to explain themselves and it can feel like you're dumping your underwear drawer out for fandom to see since that is part of sexuality.

In a discussion I had with sisabet tonight (that partially prompted my opening the question up here) she said something very similar, that people get touchy because they feel they have to explain themselves and justify the things that turn them on, as part of justifying their ship, and that in that situation it's easy to inadvertantly insult someone.