I'd like to pose a question to the masses of LJdom

[timepiececlock]

Is it possible to have a straightforward discussion of the validity of slash as a character ship (not a fandom ship), without having people get upset?

Sometimes I'd like to sit down with yaoi (slash) fans of Gundam Wing and debate with them why Heero and Duo are not gay, but Quatre and Trowa might be. Or with Highlander, why I do think Methos did it with Byron, but not with Duncan. Or the canon-based exptrapolation of Spike/Angel versus Spike/Xander-- or, if one were so inclined, why none of those work and everyone is straight unless explicitly and irrevicably stated otherwise, or vice versa.

But it seems that slash discussions between people who disagree on whether a slash pairing is valid as a "conventional" couple instead of an unconvention/fandom-based one, always go badly-- and then no one ever really gets to hear the other side's reasons.

Is it just that it's an argument best had in person, where you can read each other's expressions and not take offense so easily?

Do people censor themselves and not try to talk about it, for fear of starting an unintended argument?

Is there a way to say "I don't believe in your ship, you don't believe in mine, let's talk about it and explore why" without the conversation eventually getting bitter?

Do slash fans and het fans even want to have discussion and debate about it?

Or is it like putting Pro-Life-ers in a room with Pro-choice-ers and telling them to talk about only abortion: there will be blood and vitriol no matter how good your intentions?

Comments

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Well. It seems to be a problem, doesn't it? Truly wish it would work-- because, just like you, I *wonder*. But a reasonable, in-depth discussion? Chances aren't good. Of course, I'm a firm fence-straddler: loved MSR back in the day-- was a bit of a SKipper later--, *came* to BtVS loving the Spuffy as my OTP to end all OTPs, found Oz/Willow the cutest thing since puppies and thought Gunn/Gwen in Players was intriguing.
Of course, many het pairings bore me to tears.
As for BtVS-- throughout the seasons, I came to the conclusion Buffy/Faith was a riveting dynamic also teeming with romantic (as much as it can get with Faith *g*) potential. wiseacress then made me see the Spander; and maybe, just very, very maybe, someone can convince me Spike-on-Angel isn't just a twisted thing of days long past... & ;-)

But generally, I believe that any slash and het discussion would first need separate a few issues: canon and fanon, alternate universes and the show itself, emotions and facts. Last but not least, de gustibus non disputandum: You can argue about the foundations, i.e. the objective elements of the show, but ultimately, the interpretation thereof is each viewer's own.

Sure, with some I don't agree-- I might want to but really can't.

You *could* state that a large portion of the population does not consider, say, Angel/Wes a credible relationship when taking the characters as portrayed on screen, and it would be an absolutely true statement-- but it would not matter to, say, thebratqueen because the lens through which she views the show differs from the one(s) worn by most other people...

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I believe that any slash and het discussion would first need separate a few issues: canon and fanon, alternate universes and the show itself, emotions and facts. Last but not least, de gustibus non disputandum: You can argue about the foundations, i.e. the objective elements of the show, but ultimately, the interpretation thereof is each viewer's own.

Well-put. I agree, you would have to set some boundaries in the beginning of the conversation, just to make sure you're talking about the same thing.