I'd like to pose a question to the masses of LJdom

[timepiececlock]

Is it possible to have a straightforward discussion of the validity of slash as a character ship (not a fandom ship), without having people get upset?

Sometimes I'd like to sit down with yaoi (slash) fans of Gundam Wing and debate with them why Heero and Duo are not gay, but Quatre and Trowa might be. Or with Highlander, why I do think Methos did it with Byron, but not with Duncan. Or the canon-based exptrapolation of Spike/Angel versus Spike/Xander-- or, if one were so inclined, why none of those work and everyone is straight unless explicitly and irrevicably stated otherwise, or vice versa.

But it seems that slash discussions between people who disagree on whether a slash pairing is valid as a "conventional" couple instead of an unconvention/fandom-based one, always go badly-- and then no one ever really gets to hear the other side's reasons.

Is it just that it's an argument best had in person, where you can read each other's expressions and not take offense so easily?

Do people censor themselves and not try to talk about it, for fear of starting an unintended argument?

Is there a way to say "I don't believe in your ship, you don't believe in mine, let's talk about it and explore why" without the conversation eventually getting bitter?

Do slash fans and het fans even want to have discussion and debate about it?

Or is it like putting Pro-Life-ers in a room with Pro-choice-ers and telling them to talk about only abortion: there will be blood and vitriol no matter how good your intentions?

Comments

[blkros.livejournal.com]

I've had discussions with people about it w/o it getting bitter. The point is, though, it can't be an open debate because people in general just aren't mature enough to handle it. Period.

My discussions on the topic of GW yaoi with some of my friends that are yaoi fans have been positive experiences as in, they became my friends because we could talk about it, both approach it with open minds, and see points in the other's circumstances. HOWEVER, most of my friends that are yaoi fans will admit, there's nothing in the show that supports the Duo/Heero pairing, but they just like it. And that's FINE with me.

I just get irritated with the ones that swear its gospel. But those people, aren't going to debate with an open mind. Otherwise, they would have opened their eyes and been able to admit, there's quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.

Why is this? I have no idea. I don't like people telling me there's no 1xR evidence in the series, but I've gotten to a point where I know my own mind, I can see with my own 2 eyes, and it doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks on that account.

I'm really just rambling. The answer to your question is: I've tried, had some successes, some failures, but in the end, it's just best to chalk it up to this is their preference for X reason, and this is your preference for Y reason, write what you want, read what you want, respect others, and fandom can be big enough for everyone.

Love,
Rose <--who REALLY likes your avatar. One of my favorite movies of all time!!!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

HOWEVER, most of my friends that are yaoi fans will admit, there's nothing in the show that supports the Duo/Heero pairing, but they just like it.

That's an interesting (and good) thing to hear, because most of the people I've talked to (and I stopped after the first few arguments wnet unhappy) on the subject of 1x2 are the gospel-swearing kind, not the "I like it and can infer" kind. I've read several pro-yaoi explanatory essays that swear upon the altar of canon that theirs is the way and Relena should die or just walk off or something. It got kind of exhausting. Sometimes in that fandom I wonder if how I feel is much like how the slash minority in other fandoms must feel.

I'm glad to here that someone is having good conversations though. It's a positive sign.

[blkros.livejournal.com]

Anyone who says that, is an idiot, and not worth your time. They're the sheep who follow the tide, and really have no reasoning for their beliefs and are NOT comfortable with them, so they get defensive when someone argues an opposing viewpoint - to the point of idiocy.

Anyone with a brain can see that there was a "connection" between Heero and Relena. Anyone with a copy of Blind Target and who doesn't have "yaoi blinders on" can see that there is more than a connection. It's out and out canon, but in trying to be completely "fair", I don't ask others to declare it is "the one official truth", because I don't need them to. All I ask is that they respect MY opinion and MY preference, the SAME WAY I respect THEIRS.

But that is the key. I show THEM respect first, and then ask it in return.

As for slash minority in other fandoms.... I've yet to find a series where the slash fans are in the minority. Maybe it's the series I'm choosing...

:/

Love,
Rose

PS - It took a lot of time and effort to have these positive discussions. Some of it was really worthwhile, but for the most part, I genuinely recommend just staying away from the issue. And the yaoi fans on my Friends list are generally the ones I've had positive interactions with, that at the VERY least don't feel threatened by the fact I write 1xR, just like I am not threatened by the fact they write/read/prefer 1x2.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I've yet to find a series where the slash fans are in the minority. Maybe it's the series I'm choosing...

There's definite differences between anime and tv/movie genre fans in that regard-- I'm not sure if there is any fandom in anime where yaoi could be qualified as minority (I say that tentatively, because anime fans are so many for so many shows, and I've only experienced a small part of that.) Mostly because anime has a lot more of it in canon than western tv/books/comics/movies do.

By the way, I'm glad you like the icon! The Shawshank Redemption is one of my favorite films too. It's amazing.