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timepiececlockOk, rewatched CWDP.
You know all that speculation stuff I said before? Screw it.
I don't know what's up with Spike, or with Joyce. Just that something is-- up.
I'm gonna focus on the fact that the last shot of the ep... the close up...Buffy looked utterly heartbroken. Like, she'd thought she'd already been far to damaged to hurt anymore, but then this hits her and it does. hurt.
But I did notice a line this time that went over my head with the first viewing-- Buffy accuses vampires (which, in my opinion, she was talking about BOTH Spike and Angel, who was pretty wrapped up in the death/love/angst stuff too)of being all about (paraphrasing) "death and pain and love and sex...", and Holden, the Shrink!Vamp, cuts her off and says "No-- that's really just a guy thing you know."
Buffy brushes that off, but to me that was important, and also goes back to what Holden said earlier, about Buffy not knowing how to relate/connect to men, because she always expects disappointment. It was so good to see someone point out that Buffy's problems are her fault too, because relationships go BOTH ways. It was VERY nice to hear ME for once say that "men aren't evil just because you sleep with them", the taking back of a message we've gotten from the show since Surprise in season 2 that sex+men=pain.
I also liked this conversation because it linked all of the men in Buffy's life together-- Angel, Riley, Spike, and even her father. Buffy's always looked at all her relationships as different. To her, Angel was the true love she lost, Riley was the perfect guy that she failed, Spike was the all-consuming obsession she used to escape then let spiral out of control. But Holden's conversation put them all on the same level-- it may be complicated but it's NOT different, because the common denominator in all of them is BUFFY, and that means something.
Gosh, this show is amazing. I never expected we'd get ANYthing this good... I honestly expected on some level that Buffy would stay in "the victim" role, and would never take responsibility of her own emotional problems, and admit to her portion of fault in the failed S-6 relationship. But what we've got here is almost all that I could have wished for (Except, of course, for the whole Spike/biting thing.)
Not only did someone psycho-analyze Buffy in the way that I imagined she would be psycho-nanlyzed, but the same vampire was a great example of both MEN and VAMPIRES, and Buffy's misconceptions about both, and how they behave and why. It makes so much sense that this happened with a newborn vampie, because only someone like Holden could give Buffy an honest, on-the-spot, un-influenced description of what it feels like to BE a vampire, and what that means.
You know all that speculation stuff I said before? Screw it.
I don't know what's up with Spike, or with Joyce. Just that something is-- up.
I'm gonna focus on the fact that the last shot of the ep... the close up...Buffy looked utterly heartbroken. Like, she'd thought she'd already been far to damaged to hurt anymore, but then this hits her and it does. hurt.
But I did notice a line this time that went over my head with the first viewing-- Buffy accuses vampires (which, in my opinion, she was talking about BOTH Spike and Angel, who was pretty wrapped up in the death/love/angst stuff too)of being all about (paraphrasing) "death and pain and love and sex...", and Holden, the Shrink!Vamp, cuts her off and says "No-- that's really just a guy thing you know."
Buffy brushes that off, but to me that was important, and also goes back to what Holden said earlier, about Buffy not knowing how to relate/connect to men, because she always expects disappointment. It was so good to see someone point out that Buffy's problems are her fault too, because relationships go BOTH ways. It was VERY nice to hear ME for once say that "men aren't evil just because you sleep with them", the taking back of a message we've gotten from the show since Surprise in season 2 that sex+men=pain.
I also liked this conversation because it linked all of the men in Buffy's life together-- Angel, Riley, Spike, and even her father. Buffy's always looked at all her relationships as different. To her, Angel was the true love she lost, Riley was the perfect guy that she failed, Spike was the all-consuming obsession she used to escape then let spiral out of control. But Holden's conversation put them all on the same level-- it may be complicated but it's NOT different, because the common denominator in all of them is BUFFY, and that means something.
Gosh, this show is amazing. I never expected we'd get ANYthing this good... I honestly expected on some level that Buffy would stay in "the victim" role, and would never take responsibility of her own emotional problems, and admit to her portion of fault in the failed S-6 relationship. But what we've got here is almost all that I could have wished for (Except, of course, for the whole Spike/biting thing.)
Not only did someone psycho-analyze Buffy in the way that I imagined she would be psycho-nanlyzed, but the same vampire was a great example of both MEN and VAMPIRES, and Buffy's misconceptions about both, and how they behave and why. It makes so much sense that this happened with a newborn vampie, because only someone like Holden could give Buffy an honest, on-the-spot, un-influenced description of what it feels like to BE a vampire, and what that means.
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Date: 2002-11-14 04:54 am (UTC)I notice that too about the men in her life. One of the best things about that conversation is that she speaks of Spike as one of the group of men she has dated, rather than separating him from the pack. And I love that she essentially absolves him of responsibility -- even though he "made her do things" she didn't want to do, it was because she couldn't find the strength to resist, not because HE was necessarily bad.
(Damn, need to go get dressed, but I completely agree with you :)