define irony? Come on you fellow booklovers... debate time!

[timepiececlock]

I got into a mini-debate with my History of Western Civ professor today.

The topic: Greek tragedies

The point of discussion: Is irony a recognizable element or theme in Greek tragedies, literarily speaking?

I say yes. He didn't really see how irony was part of the tragedy formula.

I brought up Oedipus. The guy leaves his family for fear of killing his father and ends up killing his father anyway, because "father" it turns out is a debateable word. And his parents sent him away for fear of him killing his father only to have him grow up and kill him in circumstances resulting from sending him away.

How is that stuff anything BUT ironic?

Also, the fact that the Greek Tragic Hero's tragic flaw is also typically his greatest virtue/asset is in itself ironic. It's an irony built into the nature of Greek tragedy.

I ended up telling him that yes, Greek tragedies usually include literary irony. He asked if I could elaborate.

Here's where my rolling ball dropped like a bomb and my memory failed me.

I could only remember one type of literary irony, and I distinctly remember being taught in many lit classes that there were at least 3 or 4 categories of irony in literature. I told him I couldn't remember. He said that when I did he'd be interested in hearing more, and could I bring a list?

I said I definitely would. And then he went back to teaching and half of the rest of the class gave me a weird look.

Here's how you can help!

What are the forms of irony in literature?

The only one I can remember at the moment is when the audience knows what the characters do not know.

I know there are more types. Y'all are well-read folks. Help?


EDIT: thisficklemob, evemac, spicedrum and pepperlandgirl4, you gals kick ass. Thank for the help! I've got a veritable arsenal to take with me to class on Monday. I am *so* going to win this discussion. I already have; he just doesn't know it yet.

Comments

[mrthursday.livejournal.com]

I have to say for the most part I back your proffessor.
There only ironic to the modern mindset, which tends to be existentailist in tis philosophical outlook and dramatic output (modern tradgy is about bad choices, not consequences for actions you can't avoid because they are willed by uncaring gods).
To the greeks it was not Ironic that Oedipus ended up killing his father, it was fate, destiny the inescapable will of the gods.
The whole audience was expecting it the moment they heard the prophecy in the first place (even if they didn't know the story before they went to the play)and because there is no escape from these things in greek Tragic plays, I don't think you could call this Irony in the same way as say Macbeth.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Awww. Can I copy & paste that when I present him my def? It's good to include an opposing opinion. Though I don't think I entirely agree.

[mrthursday.livejournal.com]

I see no reason why not.
I say I only mostly back him There is after all nothing wrong with interpting the play as "ironic", i just think it si only so to the modern mind.