(no subject)

[timepiececlock]

I'm reading the Bleach manga right now. I've only gotten through chapter 1 so far (well that and the two first episodes of the anime).

I want the Bleach fans on my flist to know that so far I am reading this for YOU, and not for me, because at the moment I think it's a bad YYH (which I didn't even like anyway, either)imitation with delusions of Ranma 1/2, wrapped up in your run of the mill boring ass shounen cliches.

But you all seem so damn enamored, so I'll try, try, try, try try, try, try try try, try, try again.


EDIT: Bored, bored, bored... sometimes I feel seriously spoiled by things like FMA and Naruto. But dude, even InuYasha was more original than this, and as much as I love IY that's not the pinnacle of anime/manga splendor. Then again, like I said before this has delusions of Ranma. Too bad; I've already seen the wacky family members randomly battling each other and the whacked out, eccentric father engaging in daily fights with the son to make him stronger. Rumiko Takahashi did it first, and did it better.

And the whole thing with Ichigo instantly breaking the seal-- okay, that's standard magic-boy supernatural hero stuff. I can take that. But did the shinigami girl's reaction have to be so typical? The scene was pulled word for word out of a hundred other anime. That was a major lost opportunity for this anime to catch my interest. If the Shinigami girl had simply given his newly freed person a casual once-over glance, and a muttered "Interesting..." that would have been at least a little different. If she had followed up with "Well if you can do that, get your ass over here and help, but don't do anything until I say so," then I would have been mildly intrigued.

And him standing in front of the monster and having no fear, his FIRST time seeing a monster, especially one that has already hurt/possibly killed his family? Gimme a break. I'm so over that shonen cliche. I don't ask for reality in terms of events, but I ask for reality in terms of characterization. I think about this, then I compare it to Edward Elric in the butcher shop, running for his life and terrified that he's going to die, because as brave as he is he knows he's totally powerless. Or Edward giving himself up to Scar in a desperate attempt to save Al in episode 15. Or Uzumaki Naruto, frozen in place by just looking at Zazuba. Or Sasuke in the second part of the chunnin exam, willing to give up the scroll rather than get killed. I'm even thinking of a couple of different scenes from Fushigi Yuugi.

I know unexplainable unrealistic absence of fear the first time the new, untested or untrained hero faces an evil monster is a typical shonen anime cliche, but that sort of thing never sat well with me. And now that I've seen shonen and action/adventure anime that DOESN'T do that, I'm finding it even less interesting.

Comments

[zebeckras.livejournal.com]

I do hope you like it :) I started really liking it after reading volume three (though I didn't get to read vol 2, Barnes and Noble has never had it). But I did like it enough by the end of volume 1 to keep reading it, somewhat undecided though I was. ;) I think the Orihime arc was more of what drew me in than Ichigo's beginning, really. That and Rukia trying to learn more about the human world by reading creepy gothic romance manga. To herself. Aloud. heehee.

Oh, and I like the art style, and that's rather subjective. *G*

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I'll give it a go a while longer. :)

[jaina.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the manga and I don't know how different it is, but I'm really enjoying the anime. (The comedic eps more than the dramatic ones, though.) It's pretty stylish and fun.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Bahhh. I had the same reaction when I watched the first two anime episodes. So far, the manga is exactly the same, like line for line.

I'm going to read more, but right now it's just not doing it for me-- the storyline feels recycled, the humor feels recycled, and the drama feels recycled.

Gimme some FMA or Fruits Basket or Trigun any day over this.

I shouldn't come on LJ at work...

[riddering.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to quick say that yes, Bleach is not amazing to start out with but if you keep with it the story changes dramatically. I started reading it after I caught up with Naruto and thought, "Well this is alright as a diversion but it sure as hell ain't Naruto."

Now though? I *love* the manga. It takes a while for you to really grasp the Bleach universe. Like with Naruto--the world of the story isn't developed in the first chapter but it takes longer. Really, you don't know the whole ninja world until the Chuunin exame starts in volumes 4/5.

About Ichigo--I have not experienced very much manga/anime. I only look at the stuff that falls in my lap or is pimped A LOT. So the cliche didn't strike me but after thinking about your comments it still doesn't bother me because of later revelations about him. Ichigo's lack of fear doesn't feel stale to me because we learn how deeply ingrained it is into his personality that he has to protect the people in his life. His whole psychology is based around the fact of *how* he can protect not *if*. Also, in volume 4 a character comes in the story that acts as a foil to Ichigo and...it's good. *is very coherent today*

After that begins a looooong arc that has become my favorite arc from just about anything. Throughout the whole manga is some of the best humor I've come across. And there's a canon lesbian. *waves Bleach pom-poms*

Re: I shouldn't come on LJ at work...

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I'll make allowances for things to improve. :)

And there's a canon lesbian.

Have you ever seen Sailor Moon? My first anime had canon lesbians, way back in the 90s.

Re: I shouldn't come on LJ at work...

[riddering.livejournal.com]

I haven't ever seen Sailor Moon. That was always classified in my mind in the "er...no!" anime category. Of course I actually know nothing about it so it's one of those moments when I'm an ignorant snob. *sheepish*

I'll make allowances for things to improve. :)

I also meant to add the disclaimer that I completely understand if you *never* get to like the series. I know books that people talk about as High Art and Godly and I couldn't make it past the first chapter without wanting to chuck it across the room. So, yeah. I just have to try. *eg*

Re: I shouldn't come on LJ at work...

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

::laugh:: You definitely want to stay away from SM. It's sort of something that, if you don't get into it before you turn 16, it's sort of passed you by, and rightfully so. I started in 8th grade or so, at about 14. Most of the people who started watching anime 6 or 7 years ago, like I did, and started as kids or teenagers, started with Sailor Moon and/or Dragonball Z. Those were the first big-name series to be on American TV. But really, both were bad. SM wasn't as bad as DBZ, but it was kind of bad to anyone who isn't like 15 or younger. It wasn't terrible-- in fact if I had episodes on my computer I'd probably watch them out of nostalgia-- and I really got into the show in terms of shipper fanfic. But, yeah, there's a lot better stuff to watch, if you're starting anime nowadays instead of a few years ago. But it did have the first canon lesbian and gay couples I'd seen on anime, the former being good guys and the latter being villains.

[octopedingenue]

I wasn't very impressed with the first volume of "Bleach", which I picked up last fall purely because Ichigo looked like Kyou from "Fruits Basket" on the cover. The art style didn't move me, and I couldn't keep any of the characters straight except for Ichigo, Rukia, and Orihime (who is darling). But I liked those three well enough to keep reading, though I still wasn't hugely interested... I didn't start to genuinely like the series as a whole until volume 3, which had some very sweet dramatic touches that again reminded me of Kyou. And I liked the comedy in volume 4.

I'm still not in love with the series, and I can understand why you're not, but I do like it. I promised hecatehatesthat that I'd read the rest of the scanlations if she'd write fic for me, and riddering promised me that there is a character like Andrew from "Buffy"!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I'm feeling like he's kinda like Kyou, except that I feel nothing for him yet I instantly loved Kyou and found him sympathetic. For example: both first chapters have the main character getting in a fight: but Ichigo won his first fight, whereas the first thing Kyou did was get pummled by Yuki.

It's nice to know that someone else didn't fall in love with it right off either. I'm through chapter 7 right now and still not very interested. But I will try up to volume 3, since someone else mentioned that one as well.

Ohoho!

[riddering.livejournal.com]

I told you there was a character like Andrew but after reading through the series I have discovered someone else you will love. Imagine taking all the personality, fierceness, lovable amorality, and strength of Greed. Then take the super-powerful aspect of Sesshomaru and also give that character a Rin who is sassy and strong and just a little scary and devoted to said character. If you do that, you have Kenpachi from Bleach.

Re: Ohoho!

[octopedingenue]

...Yes, but is he HOT? ;P

Re: Ohoho!

[riddering.livejournal.com]

*shakes head* You make the baby Alphonse cry.

Re: Ohoho!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

As punishment for making baby Alphonse cry, you are hereby ordered to download Samurai Champloo #19 immediately and yousendit to me. If you choose not to accept this mission, baby Alphonse will not only cry, he will commit fratricide.

[mildmay.livejournal.com]

I'm going to jump in and say pretty much exactly what everyone else has said. It takes awhile to get into Bleach. I tend to agree with you about the cliches you mentioned. Honestly, I read the first 12 or so chapters and then completely forgot it existed until I was chatting with someone on my friends list and she reminded me of it, so I ended up reading it as a diversion while I waited for episodes of FMA to download and new eps of Naruto to come out. I didn't really get into it until Ishida was introduced and the supporting characters got a chance to shine. And then the plot really picked up not long after that, too.

What I like about Bleach is the supporting characters. Ishida, Orihime, Chad, Kisuke and a few more characters that are introduced later in the series. I think I'm in a minority in that I'm rather indifferent to Rukia and, while I like Ichigo pretty well for the most part, I don't root for him like I do Naruto (but then, I don't know that I root for any character like I do Naruto). But the supporting characters in Bleach make my day. Because they're fun and entertain me greatly. So I kinda forgive the cliches from the first part of the series because of that. I can forgive a lot of ridiculousness if I'm amused and/or entertained by something. :)

[crossouttheeyes.livejournal.com]

This has absolutely nothing to do with Bleach ...

I bought Escaflowne and spent 95% of my awake time yesterday watching it. I'm down to the last episode and I'm procrastinating because I don't want it to end. I know there is manga. So I came to ask thee, Mighty Pimp Rashaka, have you read the manga? Is it any good?

Your Mighty Pimptress Says....!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

OMG I LOVE ESCAFLOWNE!!!

IT'S SO DAMN BEAUTIFUL!!!!

THE MUSIC! THE CHARACTERS!

THE MOST FUCKING PERFECTLY WRITTEN LOVE STORY IN ANY ANIME EVER!

::cough:: Um, I haven't read the manga. For a couple of reasons.
1) people tell me it's waaaaaay different from the anime, and I loved and adored the anime
2) apparently in the manga Hitomi's lifeforce is used to power the Escaflowne and that sounded way to weirdly sexualized to me, and more oriented toward teenage boys
3) I just totally wasn't interested because I loved the show so damn much
4) No one's ever told me it's good... they haven't told me it's bad, either, but I would think that if it was great it would get praised, and I haven't heard that.

It makes me *so* happy you're watching Esca. Until I watched FMA, Esca was my choice as "most well done anime ever". It's still my choice of "best anime of the 90s". It's so ambitious. And beautiful. And richly developed. And...gah. Whoever thought of combining mecha and classic fantasy was whacked, but it ended up in this perfect combination.

A gift... my only Esca icons:

Re: Your Mighty Pimptress Says....!

[crossouttheeyes.livejournal.com]

There had been some sort of plot against me watching it:
-Downloaded it ... turned out to be some weird type of files that I couldn't figure out how to play.
-Netflix ... chopped up Fox version.
-DVDs ... elusive creatures thought to be extinct until shortly after Christmas when The Perfect Collection appeared at Best Buy. Psycho rejoiced and ran to the checkout.

I have plans to screen cap and icon. Oh yes, there shall be icons!

Squee! *steals icons for later usage*

Re: Your Mighty Pimptress Says....!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I have 3/4 of the series, half on VHS dub and half on DVD. I've seen the whole thing, the first half in dub and the second half in subtitled. I ended up liking both versions a lot (especially since that was the first thing I saw a lot of those voice actors do... Van and Hitomi are now voicing Miroku and Sango on IY), although I've heard other people complain about the dub. I think it all depends on what you start with.

I'm glad you've seen it. Did you finish the last episode? Which language did you watch it in?

You *have* to make some reaction posts in your LJ about it! I want to hear your thoughts.

Definitely looking forward to the icons. :)

Re: Your Mighty Pimptress Says....!

[crossouttheeyes.livejournal.com]

I watched the dub. I ended up watching most of the series when I stayed home from work with a migraine and reading subtitles would have just caused more brain squeezing pain. And I'll have to watch it dubbed to screen cap because subtitles are a pain to work around. I guess I'll just have to watch it a 3rd time to see it subbed ... and maybe a 4th time and a 5th and a 6th. *g*

There will so be a reaction post after my second viewing. Too much squee after the first viewing for anything more than a post saying, "Squee! Escaflowne! Squee! Mad love! Squee!".

Re: Your Mighty Pimptress Says....!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

"Squee! Escaflowne! Squee! Mad love! Squee!"

For me, how perfect versus how good something is usually has a direct inverse effect on how much I want to read fanfic for it. If something is perfect for me (Escaflowne, Farscape), my urge to read fanfic is small to nonexistant. It feels complete already. I've read maybe ten Esca fics in the last 4 years, and those were mostly comedy/parody fics or crossovers. I just feel like it ended at exactly the right place for the main characters.

The two big exceptions to this are FMA and Fruits Basket, but those get exceptions because they were SO open-ended in how they finished that I had to look to fanfic until I got the movie or manga, respectively, to tell me how it really finishes.

One of the things of many that so impressed me about Esca, though, was the love story. The perfect, perfect, love story. Unlike most anime, the Esca love story was more like literature than like typical movies/tv/anime. The long, long progression where you don't get resolution till the end... the separating of the two lovers after they've finally realized their love... Unlike most anime or tv, where there's a pairing or couple throughout the whole thing and it's a relationship story... Esca is a love story in the most traditional literary sense. It all comes back to that.

And yet, it's so, so much more. I want to tell people "It's a fantastic love story." But then I'm afraid it'll be seen as just a shoujo chick flick thing.

I bet you never thought "medeival giant robots" could make such an awesome series, huh?