Harry Potter: Post-book thoughts on ships

[timepiececlock]

Harry ships

Well, I'm not surprised Harry dumped Ginny in typical Spiderman style. That's okay with me-- I like Harry alone best.

Although, I sincerely thought at the end of book 5 that Luna was introduced to be Harry's love interest. It just seemed the most interesting course Harry's personal life might take, and was well-set up in book 5 as Luna was brought into his life.

Book 6 has pretty much quashed that idea. I do think that we're meant to see Ginny as Harry's first love, and that will continue into book 7, even though they're not actively in a relationship. It's that Peter Parker / Mary Jane trap. I don't particularly dislike Harry/Ginny, though I feel like Ginny could do with a few more flaws to make her more interesting. Except for shyness she's been given remarkably few personal flaws in the books-- she seems to be warm, fun, smart, talented at hexes, pretty, sporty, and brave. The ideal girl.

I guess I just don't find ideal people very interesting. I'm a little disappointed in H/G becoming canon in that respect-- I think I'd like the ship a lot better if Ginny seemed a more complex character. So far her biggest personal detractors are that she used to be shy around him (isn't anymore!) and used to have a crush on Harry (which finally got reciprocated, so it's okay after all!) Harry vascilates between being a hero and an anti-hero, usually tending toward straight-up hero stuff. I guess a hero needs a hero's ideal girlfriend or boyfriend... but it's just a little disappointing because almost all the other characters in HPverse you can make a pro/con list for their peronality, some lists longer than others.

I imagine in JKR's mind Ginny is a well-rounded character with personal flaws. I'd just like to see that a bit more in the books so I can get behind the ship with some general enthusiasm.

Meanwhile, I'll probably still read Harry/Luna fic for the most part. Because so far that still seems the most interesting person for Harry, if he's got to be with anyone.


Ron/Hermione

I enjoyed it, but I feel like I've read enough about it now. I hope there's less focus on them and their relationship problems in the next book-- I'll just assume they're snogging in the background or something. Their infighting, while amusing at points, eventually became a mild distraction much like the quiddich. After a while, I just wanted them to get over it and back to the main plot.


Tonks/Lupin

I was spoiled for the Tonks/Lupin couple before hand, but in a very vague way. When it did appear, I generally liked it. From what little I've read already people seem to be claiming it came out of nowhere.

I find this a very odd...very peculiar complaint, given that we see Lupin only a few minimal times in OotP and even less in this book, and the times we do see him are almost always strictly business. That's like complaining that Kingsley Shacklebot is married and has kids.
He's not married and doesn't have kids, you say?
How do you know he doesn't? I say.

We see so little of Tonks and Remus... I just assumed last book and this book that they were doing their jobs and living their lives outside of Harry's sphere of information, like most of the adult characters in HP do. And there would be no reason to inform Harry or the other kids that Tonks and Lupin are sort of dating now. It's not Harry's business, and not really relevent.

Do I like them as a pair? I dunno. It worked for me in the book well enough, but I've never really liked Tonks as a character. Don't dislike her... just never caught on to the Tonks appreciation train. So I'm pretty null and "whatever" on the subject.


About Sirius and Lupin...

... I've avoided discussing this pairing on my journal until now. In fact, I've never even talked about it online before, except to indicate I wasn't a shipper. Mostly I leave slash ships alone entirely when it comes to analysis. But for the moment, there's something I want to say.

I have never, ever seen Lupin as bisexual or him and Sirius as a romantic pairing.

I didn't read it that way, ever. I have never seen it, and when I do come across fandom discussion on the pairing and people claim that certain dialogue or diction indicates that JKR meant to show one or both characters as being bisexual... honestly, I think that's projecting.

I know it's harsh to say, but that's what I think. As far as I can tell the HP books have been cookie-cutter het all the way across. Sometimes I wonder if gays exist in JKR's wizarding world-- if they do, I don't think she's shown them to us yet.

Some Remus/Sirius fans have this sense of canonness in their argument. The same kind of sense of canonness you see in Spike/Angel shippers in season 5 of AtS. The difference being that there were gay jokes and casual references and outright dialogue in season 5 of Angel that alluded to Spike/Angel history probably involving a sexual element. Most of that was the writers wanting to titillate and shock, I think, rather than deliver with an actual love story ending in happy vampire love the way Willow and Tara got happy witch love. In AtS, I could see the canon nudges and winks.

I honestly read nothing like that in any of the HP books. So when I read about so-called canon defending it, I just mostly roll my eyes.

Now, I'm not saying I think the pairing is impossible or wrong. As far as I can tell it does what a lot of online fandom non-canon pairings do-- take two interesting characters and put them together. In this case, two friends who (until book 6, which I think indicates that Remus was at least somewhat involved with Tonks before Sirius died) were relatively unnatached as far as canon relationships were concerned, and had a strong emotional relationship already present in their friendship. I can definitely see why the slashers took that notion and ran with it.

But the online reaction to the Tonks/Remus thing bemuses me. I bemuses me that some few considered Remus/Sirius to be canon enough that they dislike the idea of him dating someone else, especially a woman. Not that they're unhappy-- I totally understand and expect THAT (my own ship died with book 6, so I understand how they feel), but that they're so indignant about it. Like they're surprised that Lupin now has a new love interest, a female character at that. Why are they surprised? Did they fail to notice until now that pretty much every relationship in HP canon is het or platonic? This is a HP book, not a book by Joss Whedon or Russel T. Davies.

Except Dobby/Kreacher, of course. Their love/hate relationship will live forever! 4EVA, I says!

Comments

[bronwenstx.livejournal.com]

XD What did you think of Harry asking Luna out for that Slug party?

You noticed how the strongest romantic subtext H/L has happened in Christmas? First the mistletoe then this date?

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I thought that was adorable that he asked her. And if the whole Ginny thing had never happened, I'd probably be writing fic about it write now. At the moment, however, I am still feeling derailed by canon.

The Christmas thing.. I didn't notice that. Good observation skills there. ::high fives you::

[jrh19782002.livejournal.com]

i wont get the book but i do know somebody dies at the end i wanted know who it is i know that snape kills them.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

YOu sure?

[jrh19782002.livejournal.com]

yes im freakin sure tell me who dies

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Okay, um, no.

Firstly, you're being rude and snappy right there and I don't tolerate that from anyone except family members, who've worked hard over many years to earn the right to snap at me and be occasionally rude.

Secondly, your grammar abuse offends me. I only tolerate grammar abuse on my journal if it's funny, and trust me-- you're not being funny.

Thirdly, and I consider this the most important point, FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Read the freakin' book or investigate someone's "major spoilers here" post. Heck, search around a bit and you'll find one of my posts that says who dies. Trust me, it's NOT HARD.

Now please go away. Feel welcome to comment on my LJ again once you have learned to make whole and unbruised sentences.

[jrh19782002.livejournal.com]

what are u a fuckin english teacher who cares if my sentences arent spelled write. what am i going to get graded here on it.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

::points at you and laughs::

[octopedingenue]

How on Earth did you find this journal to troll in it?

[fadingembers.livejournal.com]

Reading your journal made my head hurt. I give you an F at life. Maybe if you read more, your writing English would be more better. I don't recommend you start with Harry Potter, though. Maybe a nice picture book. Or the menu at McDonald's.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. And in this case the penalty for a failing grade is not getting the answer you want! *pinches cheeks* Aw, you're cute.

[fadingembers.livejournal.com]

What was your ship, btw? I love Luna Lovegood, too, and was very disappointed that she wasn't in the book more. Admittedly, I don't know where they would have fit her since she's not a Gryffindor, but still. Sniff.

For me, the Lupin/Tonks thing came out of left field for the exact reason you listed as it not surprising you. Yes, those two characters have been all business up until now. There have been no suggestions during that business that maybe a romance was blossoming. And Tonks being upset seemed like it was going somewhere towards Sirius. Instead we got:

Tonks: See, I'll love you like she loves Bill.
Lupin: You deserve better.
Tonks: No I don't!
Everyone Else: No she doesn't!
Lupin: Oh, alright then. Let's mack.
Everyone: Hooray!

These two relatively side characters making a big deal of getting together after so many more important events have just happened...maybe it was less shocking and more poorly timed?

In conclusion, have you read this? There's even an mp3 of the song that goes with it! :D

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

My ship was Harry/Luna.

Yes, those two characters have been all business up until now. There have been no suggestions during that business that maybe a romance was blossoming. And Tonks being upset seemed like it was going somewhere towards Sirius. Instead we got:

Tonks: See, I'll love you like she loves Bill.
Lupin: You deserve better.
Tonks: No I don't!
Everyone Else: No she doesn't!
Lupin: Oh, alright then. Let's mack.
Everyone: Hooray!

I got the impression that Harry was overhearing for the first time something that all the adults in the room had known for a while. It was a surprise to Harry, yeah, but the older Weasleys already knew and so did everyone else. This is nothing new from the books-- there's been several times where Harry's had this idea in his head that he guessed about for a long time that turned out to be completely backward. I remembered that happening a lot in book 5. Then one of the adults had to remember to explain it to Harry and he's like "But I thought---Oh."

These two relatively side characters making a big deal of getting together after so many more important events have just happened...maybe it was less shocking and more poorly timed?

I saw it as more like a cap on pretty horrible night, with emotions already running high. Poorly timed by Tonks to bring it up right then, but not necessarily poorly timed by the writer.

::shrug:: I dunno. I was surprised somewhat, but not in a way that it felt out of left field. More like having a curtained-off closet that's always been hanging in the corner of your vision finally opened. Just cause Harry didn't see it before didn't mean it wasn't always there.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Ginny also has a temper as one of her flaws, but to defend the lack of balance, remember that we're seeing her through Harry's eyes, and he's got a boner for her. Before, she just wasn't around much.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

but to defend the lack of balance, remember that we're seeing her through Harry's eyes, and he's got a boner for her.

Nah. We saw Sirius through Harry's hero-worshipping eyes and still knew what his flaws were.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* I still don't think it's that big a deal. Ginny hasn't been in the spotlight enough for her to be fully developed and her role has never been as important as Sirius's, and we have seen a few flaws. Not that you're one of them, but the people proclaiming her a giant Mary Sue are on the bad crack.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say she is a Mary Sue, that's too much. In fact I think sometimes the label "Mary Sue" gets lobbed unfairly on characters in books and fanfiction, and sometimes people think that anyone with ANY good qualities (or heaven forbid, good looks) that's not a canon character is a Mary Sue. Ginny actually BEING a canon character and present from early on makes her not a Mary Sue to me. She's just very idealized, and like I said I find that hard to get into.

Mostly, I just wish she were more developed. I feel like anyone who's going to be a serious love interest for Harry (assuming after-the-fact that Cho was not serious) should be almost as well-developed as the Trio. It's weird, but I feel like we know Mr & Mrs Weasley, Dumbledore, and Hagrid all much better than we know Ginny.

Argh. How to say this? I want more scratching beyond the surface of her character before any rubbing of body part surfaces.

If JKR had developed more on the aftereffects of Ginny's brainwashing/possession by the journal, that would work for me as a pathway of insight into her character. If we knew more about her time over the summer with the Trio (which is where I'm assuming Harry really came to notice Ginny, since the book says he had forgotten she didn't hang out with them at school too), that would work also. What does she like/dislike or agree on/disagree on when compared to the rest of her family? I also think a lot of her opinions/views are interchangeable with the collective opinions of the Weasley group. She's so often shown with Ron or with the rest of the family... more scenes of her separate would be nice. We got some of that in this book, but most of those were about her relationship with other boys... yet again defined by her relationship to the male characters around her. A good opportunity for knowing Ginny better would have been through the Slug Club, since that was something she got into on her own merit and had no connection to family or boyfriends... but because Harry was so busy avoiding the meetings and other plot reasons, we didn't get development from Ginny on that end either.

Okay, skip all that blabbing. I just found a really way to explain what I mean:

I tried to imagine writing fanfic for her and Harry at work today. And I had no idea how I'd write her dialogue or personality.


I am frustrated by that. By having the protagonist dating/in love with a character who's personality quirks and idiosyncracies don't exist enough for me to be aware of them and apply them to fanfic.