various rants
Jan. 22nd, 2003 02:53 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
timepiececlockThis is a carry-over from another conversation I had in November, long time ago. It talks about the flaws in the fanatical B/A-er perception of Buffy's character (as I've oserved from visiting othe boards), and then about some differences in how Spike and Angel each loved Buffy.
Some fanatical B/A-ers (the very anti-Spike kind) have Buffy on this absurd pedastal--- she can do no wrong, and everything Spike gets he deserves, etc etc, as well as anyone else. I think that's silly because-- as was proved in CwDP--- Buffy was fucked up last year, and unable to love anyone or tolerate being loved. One of Joss' trademark story styles is to take a character who seemingly's got it all together, and knock them down a peg or twenty. Buffy's no different--- she gets the same harsh treatment. Besides, part of what makes an interesting hero is their flaws, and putting Buffy up like a paragon of everything bright and white and light means you're not watching her as the multi-dimensional person that ME is trying to convey, like they do with all their multi-layered characters.
Now that I think about it, that's also kinda the difference between S/B and A/B... Angel loved Buffy because she was his shining ideal. Spike loved Buffy for a similar reason-- because she was every bright and shining and strong and out of his reach. But he loved her FIRST as a warrior, a challenge, an equal. Then he loved her for being a hero, as I described above. And then, by season 6, he'd seen everything dark in her, everything she could be, and even though it was no picnic for either of them, he loved that part of her too, as strongly as the hero half. He loves her with her flaws, not despite them. It's why Buffy didn't feel she had to present any sort of mask when she was around him (before the sex, anyway)-- because nothing she could do or say or be would change his opinion of her.
Some fanatical B/A-ers (the very anti-Spike kind) have Buffy on this absurd pedastal--- she can do no wrong, and everything Spike gets he deserves, etc etc, as well as anyone else. I think that's silly because-- as was proved in CwDP--- Buffy was fucked up last year, and unable to love anyone or tolerate being loved. One of Joss' trademark story styles is to take a character who seemingly's got it all together, and knock them down a peg or twenty. Buffy's no different--- she gets the same harsh treatment. Besides, part of what makes an interesting hero is their flaws, and putting Buffy up like a paragon of everything bright and white and light means you're not watching her as the multi-dimensional person that ME is trying to convey, like they do with all their multi-layered characters.
Now that I think about it, that's also kinda the difference between S/B and A/B... Angel loved Buffy because she was his shining ideal. Spike loved Buffy for a similar reason-- because she was every bright and shining and strong and out of his reach. But he loved her FIRST as a warrior, a challenge, an equal. Then he loved her for being a hero, as I described above. And then, by season 6, he'd seen everything dark in her, everything she could be, and even though it was no picnic for either of them, he loved that part of her too, as strongly as the hero half. He loves her with her flaws, not despite them. It's why Buffy didn't feel she had to present any sort of mask when she was around him (before the sex, anyway)-- because nothing she could do or say or be would change his opinion of her.
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Re: AT the risk of spoiling my own essay...
Date: 2003-01-22 10:34 am (UTC)::blink:: No. If I thought you were overly fanatical anything I wouldn't HAVE prolonged conversations with you. And plus, I thought you weren't a shipper at all. That's what you said.
But are you drawing the conclusion that Spikes love for Buffy is somehow superior to Angel's love for Buffy? I don't think thats true. Certainly they are routed in different aspects of Buffy and what they see in Buffy, but the actual love they hold is I think the same in its desire and passion.
I have watched seasons 1-3, and I don't think that Angel's love wasn't passionate. Love or hate, a lack of passion wasn't the problem. I do think the love was less mature-- he said "in 200 years I've loved one woman" (paraphrasing)-- that to me indicates even more that this was a "first love" situation not only for Buffy, but to some degree for Angel, too. First loves are very passionate. I just think that the love Spike has for Buffy is more grounded than Angel's, more based on the whole and less based on the idea of being in love. That being said, if Angel had never had the clause, he would still be on the show and still probably be in love with Buffy, and Spike would be slain or off with Drusilla. And maybe if that situation had occured, over 7 years A&B's love would have become something much greater, and grown up as she grew. But it didn't, and B&A were left with a just a first-love-tragedy, whereas B&S are becoming the love that will be part of Buffy's adult life.
Re: AT the risk of spoiling my own essay...
Date: 2003-01-22 10:52 am (UTC)Nah, I am not a shipper! I just enjoy the show.
"I do think the love was less mature"
That was what i was tryin got say in the middle paragraph. I think it was made to appear less mature because the show back then was "less mature". I don't know! jist kinda feel sorry poor angel, stuck on another netwrok and unable to react to news of what his former lover and "grnadson" are up to. Can you inagine his face?
(by the way please excuse me if they have already delt with that in the US. only seen three series of Angel so far. the fourth starts...Oh Tomorrow)
"whereas B&S are becoming the love that will be part of Buffy's adult life."
We'll see about that! (laughs evilly and then scurries off to do his essay)
Re: AT the risk of spoiling my own essay...
Date: 2003-01-22 11:07 am (UTC)Well, I think it would have bugged him last year. It'd probably still annoy him, if only because he wouldn't trust Spike not to hurt Buffy. But this season--nah. I think he's got a lot more to worry about and be upset about than Buffy's romantic choices. Namely, his own. But I don't want to spoil the whole Angel season so far for you, if you dont' know.