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Zuko is so painfully awkward. It's hilarious and sad. What's interesting, though, is that I thought, after season 2 Zuko, that Zuko in the Gaang would be sullen, more quiet. Now I'm getting a sense that this prediction was wrong... if anything, Zuko's doing what he always does when he wants something: he's trying to hard. Of course, we won't know until next episode what his day to day interactions with the team are like, but I'm guessing he'll be like he was this time: earnest enough to give you a toothache, but awkward enough to stub your toe on. It's going to be a challenge for him, but I'm happy that he keeps looking to his uncle for inspiration. Now only if we knew what happened to Iroh!
How did combustion man die? Did he explode himself or fall? That part confused me.
Watching Toph crawl away from Zuko was possibly the most sad and uncomfortable scene of this entire season so far--by far the hardest thing to watch. I actually wanted to stop, even though I didn't. That was much worse than the bloodbending. Toph afraid and helpless is something a fan should never have to see.
Still, this greatly satisfies my desire for Zuko/Toph OTFriendship. [![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
high_born] I've thought since Toph was introduced that she was the most likely to understand Zuko's upbringing and his frustrations. And I was right! Toph made the first overtures of friendship, and even though she got burned, she's realistic enough to understand that it was an accident, and still supports his joining the group.
Sokka as the nervous host was amusing.
Zuko and Katara.... awesomeness. She made the allusion to their conversation in the caves, which was a hanging plot thread that I was hoping would get resolved at their next meeting, and it was. I love her death threat. Katara is badass like nobody's business. I totally agree that of the group, she'd be the first to make a death threat and mean it. (Sokka would be second.) I think it's partly their hard childhoods, partly the fact that they're children of a warrior, and partly the fact that Katara, in her heart, has potential to be vengeful, self-righteous, and a more than a little bit ruthless. She understands that someone needs to give Zuko this message, and she's the one to do it. How war changes people! Katara right now is growing up very fast, and is quite a different person from the girl at the South Pole. She's a leader, a bodyguard, an advisor, and a fierce warrior. I'm proud. You tell it to him, girl. (What a queen you'd make!)
From a shipper standpoint, I've no complaints either. I like friction, helps with the UST! There's not really any UST yet, but there's plenty of time for that later. Now I want to see these two work out their issues and become trusted companions, first.
From the other side of the shipper argument: I thought Katara was going to talk to Aang about their personal feelings, but it was all business. That's one of the things that hampers this pairing: they're always worried about business! It reminds me of cop shows, where the two partners are attractive people but each puts work first so any progress they make is agonizingly slow, and their relationship is always sacrificed to the mission.
EDIT: I just remembered another thing I loved... the fact that Appa likes Zuko. He licked him twice even. That's the seal of approval right there. And Zuko took it so well! He just endured and didn't even comment, or make the grossed-out faces that Sokka makes when that stuff happens to him. Sokka's retort about animal cruelty was pretty choice, too. One of his best lines this season. (although his deadpan "Not really, since you followed us all over the world," line was pretty good too.)
Zuko is so painfully awkward. It's hilarious and sad. What's interesting, though, is that I thought, after season 2 Zuko, that Zuko in the Gaang would be sullen, more quiet. Now I'm getting a sense that this prediction was wrong... if anything, Zuko's doing what he always does when he wants something: he's trying to hard. Of course, we won't know until next episode what his day to day interactions with the team are like, but I'm guessing he'll be like he was this time: earnest enough to give you a toothache, but awkward enough to stub your toe on. It's going to be a challenge for him, but I'm happy that he keeps looking to his uncle for inspiration. Now only if we knew what happened to Iroh!
How did combustion man die? Did he explode himself or fall? That part confused me.
Watching Toph crawl away from Zuko was possibly the most sad and uncomfortable scene of this entire season so far--by far the hardest thing to watch. I actually wanted to stop, even though I didn't. That was much worse than the bloodbending. Toph afraid and helpless is something a fan should never have to see.
Still, this greatly satisfies my desire for Zuko/Toph OTFriendship. [
high_born] I've thought since Toph was introduced that she was the most likely to understand Zuko's upbringing and his frustrations. And I was right! Toph made the first overtures of friendship, and even though she got burned, she's realistic enough to understand that it was an accident, and still supports his joining the group. Sokka as the nervous host was amusing.
Zuko and Katara.... awesomeness. She made the allusion to their conversation in the caves, which was a hanging plot thread that I was hoping would get resolved at their next meeting, and it was. I love her death threat. Katara is badass like nobody's business. I totally agree that of the group, she'd be the first to make a death threat and mean it. (Sokka would be second.) I think it's partly their hard childhoods, partly the fact that they're children of a warrior, and partly the fact that Katara, in her heart, has potential to be vengeful, self-righteous, and a more than a little bit ruthless. She understands that someone needs to give Zuko this message, and she's the one to do it. How war changes people! Katara right now is growing up very fast, and is quite a different person from the girl at the South Pole. She's a leader, a bodyguard, an advisor, and a fierce warrior. I'm proud. You tell it to him, girl. (What a queen you'd make!)
From a shipper standpoint, I've no complaints either. I like friction, helps with the UST! There's not really any UST yet, but there's plenty of time for that later. Now I want to see these two work out their issues and become trusted companions, first.
From the other side of the shipper argument: I thought Katara was going to talk to Aang about their personal feelings, but it was all business. That's one of the things that hampers this pairing: they're always worried about business! It reminds me of cop shows, where the two partners are attractive people but each puts work first so any progress they make is agonizingly slow, and their relationship is always sacrificed to the mission.
EDIT: I just remembered another thing I loved... the fact that Appa likes Zuko. He licked him twice even. That's the seal of approval right there. And Zuko took it so well! He just endured and didn't even comment, or make the grossed-out faces that Sokka makes when that stuff happens to him. Sokka's retort about animal cruelty was pretty choice, too. One of his best lines this season. (although his deadpan "Not really, since you followed us all over the world," line was pretty good too.)
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no subject
Date: 2007-12-15 10:46 pm (UTC)(And you damn well know why.)
no subject
Date: 2007-12-15 11:27 pm (UTC)(Obviously because my brainwashing satellite network finally activated; I should send my rocket scientist slaves a fruit basket for their hard work)
no subject
Date: 2007-12-15 11:23 pm (UTC)The Toph crawling away thing was also really hard to watch. He's just burnt what were essentially her eyes, and seeing her so helpless, and so... well, blind, was quite horrifying.
But oh man. I am so pleased with Zuko and Katara's interaction. There is a real sense of betrayal there, because Katara BELIEVED in him and he turned on her. Mmm, tension.
Also, dork!Zuko is one of my favourite Zukos, and I am loving the awkwardness of his attempts to fit in. So much love.
no subject
Date: 2007-12-16 12:35 am (UTC)There is a real sense of betrayal there, because Katara BELIEVED in him and he turned on her. Mmm, tension.
Do you feel a fic coming on?
Random exhausted fic! Next one will have more sexual tension, I promise.
Date: 2007-12-16 03:46 am (UTC)They are enemies because she declared them so. They are enemies because he remembers his actions. He cannot overcome the barriers of the past, the wall between them built of I thought you'd changed and I let you in. Katara trusts only once, and she cannot forgive him for wriggling into her heart, then hurting her.
She had believed in him, and reached out for him, and he had turned on her.
He knows. He knows all too well the pain of betrayal, of opening yourself to someone and being burnt; it was a lesson his own family taught him. But he does not know how to heal such a hurt. So he stands at the edges, and waits.
He waits for her hostility to lose its edge, contempt becoming mixed with familiarity. He is humble, which at first only whips her into an even greater frenzy, but her fire burns too bright and she quickly runs out of fuel.
He waits whilst the two of them prepare dinner in absolute silence, words pressing against his tongue, demanding he explain, apologise, excuse himself. He waits until her body loses its rigitity, and she relaxes into her bending of the soup.
He waits for her to once again see him as human, something that can be touched without violence, warm and soft with a heart that has been scarred like hers. He waits for a chance to redeem himself, and does not stop to ask why it is so important that she understand him.
He waits until she needs some rice, and passes it without comment to her, a simple gesture, perfectly timed.
She grunts a begrudging thank you, and the silence begins to crumble.
Silence Is
Date: 2007-12-29 03:27 am (UTC)I love the image of Zuko having to bit his tongue to not make it worse.
no subject
Date: 2007-12-17 07:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-18 03:40 am (UTC)Followed by Zuko's voice actor's perfectly delivered "Riiiiiiight."
*finally caught up*
Date: 2007-12-22 05:02 am (UTC)Do you foresee an awesome, awesome sparring scene? I've got my fingers crossed for an awesome, awesome sparring scene. I was honestly surprised by Katara's extreme hostility throughout the entire episode, since she's normally so levelheaded, but in retrospect, I shouldn't be; given their surrender to the Fire Nation, her protectiveness of Aang, and Zuko's huge past betrayal, she really might try to kill him if she believes he is stepping out of line. Or at least maim him into submission.
What I think I appreciated best in this episode were Zuko's flashbacks of his convictions from a few years back, and the faces he made. Especially that bit in the first half when he thought back on Season1!Zuko and pinched his nose in exasperation/embarassment; god, that was cute. I'm so shocked by the fact that he finally made peace wit himself; we've watched him grow into that, of course, but it looked like all of that growth had been suspended while he was being pampered in the Fire Nation, still as angry as ever because he sensed his decisions were the wrong ones. And then he made that beautiful speech, tried to go back for his uncle, and all of that growth manifests; and it is glorious, and something of a relief.
He may never whine the same way again!
Now only if we knew what happened to Iroh!
Dude, I will never stop saying this: the Pai Sho Lotus people. I'm sure that quite a few of them are leading a quiet, subversive resistance of the enlightened but firm sort. And they will probably include every cool old man we've encountered in the series - like the Swordmaster, the Guru, and Jeong-Jeong, who was even foreshadowed.
Watching Toph crawl away from Zuko was possibly the most sad and uncomfortable scene of this entire season so far--by far the hardest thing to watch.
God, it was. I was not prepared for that; I didn't even immediately understand why it was so wrong-looking, only that it was. I'm still anticipating a scene where enemies are attacking her from the air and she's rendered defenseless; it'd be like her panic in the metal wagon but different in that there's no surprise bending she can use to save herself.
Re: *finally caught up*
Date: 2007-12-22 07:42 am (UTC)I think the fact that they surrendered put Katara in an even angrier place toward Zuko and what he represents than she would have been if he'd come to them a few weeks before. Her father just got taken prisoner, by the same people who murdered her mother, and Aang lost his best chance to win. It was a crushing defeat.
This is what I wanted! YES! Ironically, as a shipper I reconciled myself to the sheer impossibility quite a long time ago, and now things are changing - but my feelings haven't. All I wanted then and want now is this really tense, really awkward, and one-sided hostile interaction. It doesn't need to be romantic; I'm just glad it's here.
I agree with you that any form of interaction-- as enemies, rivals, or friends-- any of that makes me happy. But the weird thing? I watch Zuko/Mai stuff in this season, I look at the Aang stuff, and I think "Yeah, it's totally not gonna happen." And then, just the other day, I was rewatching the clip of the cave and I was reminded. "OMG, her hand was totally on his face. And the way they turned and jerked away! That was a guilty turn." And even though I know that was about forgiveness and human connection, not about romance... when I get reminded of the crystal caves scene I think "But WHYYYYYY did they have to make it so full of blatant UST?" I mean, they could have done that scene with a lot less implication than having them interact the way they did. That cave scene could have happened with zero UST, instead of a lot. So why bother, if they're just going to go the Kataaang/Maiko route? Was it all so Katara could feel the Deep Sting Of Betrayal? Was it more of the Jet parallel? ... another thing that I raise my eyebrows at, because the Zuko/Jet/Katara parallelism triangle thing is just layered with interpretation possibilities.
None of that makes me any more or less convinced of my pairing manifesting now, so late into the show. But when I remember it, it still makes me raise my eyebrows. It still makes me wonder. And it convinces me that the way the series ends might not definitively point to any future lives together. And if there's no definitive epilogue of who marries who... then frankly, there's plenty of canon interaction to wonder about Zuko and Katara in the future. If they really do become companions and friends, and I think they will, then that weird tension in the cave scene is not a betrayal, but just more shared history. Does that make sense? Anyway... I stopped forming definite predictions about ships awhile ago. Now I just wonder.
I agree with eveyrthing you said about Zuko-- I'm so proud of him! I just wish they had switched him earlier in the show; I felt like they stalled with his character this season and it was a waste of opportunity, considering he basically did nothing for 10 episodes except mope.
I strongly think Iroh's going to be the Fire Lord, and that the Lotus group will have something to do with his take-over or rebellion. Iroh's getting stronger, and he's back in his own country, and right now a much wiser person to put on the throne than Zuko. I would be very surprised, given what we've seen Iroh do this season, if Zuko took power when Iroh was still alive.
I was not prepared for that; I didn't even immediately understand why it was so wrong-looking, only that it was.
I was startled by how strong my emotional reaction to that scene was, once it started happening. I kept thinking "I don't want to see this happening. I don't want to see this." It was just wrong, so short but so potent. Her utter fear and Zuko's awkwardness frightening her even more, the desperation in Zuko's voice and the pain and fear in Toph's. It was a very affecting scene. I think it was the crawling that was the worst. But the actors did a great job with it. I really am respecting Dante Basco's voice work as the series goes along. He does very well.
Re: *finally caught up*
Date: 2007-12-25 07:21 am (UTC)I am trying so hard not to get my hopes up because, you're right, it's too fishy. Ultimately I chalked it up to the creators merely tossing the stubborn Zutara fans a bone or two, but it isn't as though that moment of trust-then-betrayal was only significant for that instant, which fanservice usually is; they're bringing it up again now that Zuko and Katara are regularly interacting, and what's more, they're building on it. But why!? To be fair, though, it is pretty late in the series for a ship like this to develop, so that even if it does steer towards canon, there's no way it can derail Kataang, which has been nurtured by the entire series.
Even if the end of the series doesn't establish canon weddings or engagements, I think it's safe to say that the identity of Katara's love interest will be unquestionable by then, possibly for life. Fortuneteller Wu did mention that she would have an epic romance, after all.
I felt like they stalled with his character this season and it was a waste of opportunity, considering he basically did nothing for 10 episodes except mope.
I think part of it was supposed to be comic relief? At least, Zuko in episode 5 was most certainly comic relief (at the Beach, everyone was), and maybe the Maiko scenes had to be the obligatory Scenes of Romance. In any case, I thought Zuko - or at least that Zuko - was fairly bad at both.
re: the scene with Toph and Zuko
YES. Wow. I agree, Zuko in this episode was just painful to watch in general, but that scene in particular made me flinch. The only one to vouch him, and then he accidentally burns her feet, which are essentially her eyes - just incredibly unfair for both of them, and no one's fault. I wonder if the writers knew how unsettling it would be?
I really am respecting Dante Basco's voice work as the series goes along. He does very well.
And yes, I thought so too! At first the lisp was a little distracting, but once you get past that, you find that the various voices he uses for Zuko's many moods are nuanced and subtle. I also once caught a little bit of that Jake Long American Dragon thing on Disney Channel, and while his voice is still distinctly Basco's, it's definitely not Zuko's. I think that was when I started taking Basco's voice acting seriously.
Also, do you have any idea when the next airing of Avatar is? I know the closest is on the 28th in Canada, and that it'll be (in intervals) released on the Internet late that night. But I hear crazy rumors of a 13-to-20 episode marathon, and I get confused. o_O
Re: *finally caught up*
Date: 2007-12-29 04:26 am (UTC)Even if the end of the series doesn't establish canon weddings or engagements, I think it's safe to say that the identity of Katara's love interest will be unquestionable by then, possibly for life.
See, my big fear is that they WILL do some Rowling-esque epilogue. Because anything less than that engagements can be broken, and let's just say that I've yet to see any Katara/Aang interactions that I can't wiggle around in fanfic land via Katara not quite feeling the same way Aang does, and loving him but not being in love.
Frankly, in my perfect Avatar!land the series gives us a couple more exquisite Zuko/Katara scenes, moving them in an arc from enemies-beginning of trust-broken trust- to allies, doesn't do much more with Katara/Aang than they have already (and since it's a kids show, I have hope about that).
Re: *finally caught up*
Date: 2007-12-29 06:26 am (UTC)Zuko/Katara scenes, moving them in an arc from enemies-beginning of trust-broken trust- to allies, doesn't do much more with Katara/Aang than they have already (and since it's a kids show, I have hope about that).
That would be my ideal ending too, and the one I feel to be most likely. Assuming they don't do a "ten years from now" epilogue (which I doubt if they're planning more seasons in this world, which I heard they are, even if not including the Avatar), then there's nothing I can think of that they could do with Aang and Katara that would be permanent. In the most extreme of possibilities Sokka or Zuko could be engaged or even married in the final episodes (let's hope not) but I'm pretty sure nothing like that will happen with Aang and Katara. They're too young to be married, they're too young to do more than chaste kisses. With regards to engagement-- I think Katara is not the type to enter herself into an engagement when she's still 2 years too young to be married-- I think she's more independent than that, and I bet the whole thing with her grandmother's broken engagement to Pakku has given Katara enough perspective to approach engagements cautiously, and not enter into one prematurely. I also think it'd be... counter to the show's audience ethos to have them engaged when they're so young. The writers don't exactly want to be telling middle school kids they should be getting engaged. So I honestly don't see that happening. We'll probably have at the least a continuing friendship, at the most a confession of mutual love. And I'm sorry to say it, but a confession of mutual love from a fourteen year old and a twelve year old, or even a fifteen year old and a thirteen year old, is something I can write off in fanfic pretty easily. In fact, it's pretty easy to write away first love for any characters less than 17 years old, Zuko included. Just as easy as it is to write them being together forever.
Anyway, as far as ship longevity in canon goes, there's a much higher chance that we'll see Zuko's love life "tied up" than Katara's or Aang's. And given Zuko's status, it would be harder to write Mai out of his life than it would be to write Aang out of Katara's.
Re: *finally caught up*
Date: 2007-12-29 03:29 pm (UTC)I don't have much to say to this beyond WORD. You're right, Katara is really smart and was paying attention in 1x18 - I'm sure she's going to be pretty wary about entering into an engagement, and they are super young to be doing so. I'm mainly crossing my fingers that Zuko and Mei doen't end up together, because yes, Mei is much harder to write out than Aang is. Plus, I think it would be really suck for Zuko to do all this mental/emotional growth and end up with someone who... well, Mei never really did anything for me as a character, and it's clear to me that her loyalties run to Azula before even thinking about Zuko, she's hate being a queen (and suck at it, imho), and she wouldn't push against Zuko. That relationship has a painful lack of contrast.
this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 05:06 am (UTC)Word! I don't want marrieds, please no marrieds. That would just sit on my fanfic opportunities, and seriously, if there are engagements, I don't think I can trust myself not to break them up just to shake up canon, which is a lot of the point of fanfiction.
A 10-year-later sort of thing isn't so objectionable to me granted that it's not totally ship-related (which Rowling's undeniably was). I want to see Pirate King Katara, after all, working as some post-war diplomat, as anyone who isn't a housewife.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 05:13 am (UTC)Sokka, on the other hand... I can see him settling down within three years of marriageable age. I just see him chasing children around and being Mr. Dad meets Mr. Mom meets Everyone's Favorite Uncle.
Want to see a fanart I made? It's not painted yet, but it will be. Next I'm going to try Katara.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 07:35 pm (UTC)The Swamp tribe studies sound really promising for Katara, but I doubt the show would work in that direction; the Swampbenders were so exaggeratedly country that I think they're just comic relief. Maybe she'll study with the Northern Water Tribe? Either way, the Water siblings will most definitely return to the Southern Water Tribe, and maybe Katara would try to further involve them with the more advanced North. It's a shame, though; she would be perfect for the Fire Nation.
To be honest, Katara's so awesome that it's almost inevitable for her to end up with an awesome, awesome career; I think I trust the creators enough to enjoy whatever they've planned for her. There's still this little nagging dread, though, that she might end up married to Aang who'll be zooming from place to place to restore peace and stuff, and that she'll be cooking and raising children, and... :(
I like that fanart; the lineart, by the way, is so clear and awesome. O_O The two are so priceless! It looks like Zuko's gotten used to Momo's antics already, like there's nothing weird about babysitting the lemur. I want to see Zuko + animals interaction; they'll be his friends until the Gaang accepts him completely, and he'll disclose his worries to Appa that he might never fit in...
Will you be include a background? Since there's fruit, it should be outdoors. Maybe something jungle-y, or one of their standard trees-and-campground sceneries?
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 08:30 pm (UTC)I highly doubt they'd make her barefoot and pregnant to Aang's superhero. Far more likely is that they'd travel spreading peace together... something I'd honestly rather see him do with Toph, who is as nomadic of spirit as Aang is.
I want Zuko + animal interaction too; I secretly love fics that have Zuko and Momo antics.
I was thinking something very basic and outdoorsy, yeah.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 05:18 am (UTC)It's probably a hangover from when
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 06:54 pm (UTC)YES. Katara would be SUCH a kickass queen, it's not even funny for the poor subordinates involved - just scary. And Toph is made for a life of crime; it wouldn't be the first time she got her face on a wanted poster, after all. Gyaaah, that would be so cool... *whimpers longingly* And and Toph could get away with all her not-so-evil, Robin Hood-esque misdeeds but just barely, and Katara's advisors would make half-joking comments about pretty-eyed despots, and and
ZukoConsort would totally be placating and sane beside her feminista scariness except for those instances when he isn't.That fic! I would read that! You guys might not think it sounds like something the fandom would take very seriously, but I have no doubts that you would pull it off. Was this part of that Zutara vampire AU you were concocting some time ago? It also just occurred to me that I have never read an AtLA vampfic. Our fandom needs more vampires.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 08:45 pm (UTC)THe same AU bunny. I just refer to it as "the Vampverse AU" and I'm only ever talking about that. We put so much detail into outlining it that sometimes I feel like its already been written.
There's been some vampire fic, but I've never read any of them. I wouldn't be concerned about fandom taking it seriously or not; the question never occurred to me. Now that you made me think about it... I'd say that I always approach fanfic with the confidence that as an author, I can control whether people take it seriously or not. I'll make it funny if I want to be funny, I'll make it serious if I want to to be taken seriously. In this case, we were going for horror-adventure-drama, and taking it quite seriously. You're looking at a couple of Buffy fans, after all. It's past the point when I'd probably ever actually write the thing, but it hangs in the back of my thoughts, sometimes.
it wouldn't be the first time she got her face on a wanted poster, after all
That's one of the finest and clearest predictions of Toph's future that I've heard. I can easily imagine it-- her skirting around the law, dodging it for fun and profit. I can imagine Toph doing it for the fun as much as for the money; money would just be a way of keeping score.
She would concentrate her efforts in the EK because it's so big, and if she started to spread into the FN... an inconspicuous messenger would show up at her hideout one day, with a letter from FL Zuko. And Toph would be all, "He sent me a cease & desist LETTER? Haha, that's real funny." And the messenger would be, like, "Just feel the wax seal and let me read it to you so I can go back to my lunch." And it would be really short, just two lines or something, saying "Dear Old Friend, please take your people and move your enterprise outside of my country. No matter how many despicable capers you engage in, I'll never put your face on a FN wanted poster, so stop trying. Yes, I heard about your collection. It won't happen, so go home and leave my citizens to be swindled by their own people. You may stop by the Palace on your way out, for tea, if you wish."
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 08:48 pm (UTC)Not that I think Aang's going to look at anyone besides Katara in the next episodes, but I'm still afraid Toph might die. I mean.... Jet died, and that just proves they're willing to kill characters under 20.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 07:26 am (UTC)Break them, break them! I'm just holding out that nothing further happens with Mei and Zuko, because I'd find some permanent thing between them harder to break than Katara/Aang, which is just too easy to split apart.
And yes - a 10 year later thing showing what they're doing would be cool. I just really don't trust the creators to have Katara doing something as awesome as her talents deserve, and not just following Aang around continuing to be his mother/sister/girlfriend. She is FAR to awesome for that.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 07:12 pm (UTC)I have the same worries! None of that support-the-hero nonsense; bah to that idea. If the creators were to sit back and let the show write itself, they'd find that there's no WAY Katara wouldn't work her way into a position of supreme and inadvisable power! You and Rashaka are very, very correct when you say she's now scary and ruthless and kindhearted but still scary and ruthless. If she ends up trailing after Aang post-war and throwing aside what she could accomplish to support him/bear his children instead, I will probably throw a massive, massive fit.
re: ships to break!
Word to the "just too easy." Despite all of the development of Katara/Aang, I think we already see no matter how compatible they are, there's an equal chance of it lasting and falling apart. After all, there was an instance when he had to choose between the world and Katara, and that didn't end well. I also agree with you about seeing the two as really, really familial; it's only recently that I've been convinced the two share an actual romance.
Mai and Zuko... might break themselves up. Zuko already made his choice between the woman and the world, I think; how awesome is that? And Mai's loyalties seem to lie primarily with Azula, at least for the time being. She did seem to resent Azula for manipulating Zuko/manipulating her, so that'll probably come into play later when Mai has to choose between Zuko with his cause and Azula with her conceit. I'm expecting her to choose Zuko, but also for this choice to come too late to save their romantic relationship. And then there's the Katara factor~
But hey, the last bit is just wishful thinking. Really wishful thinking. ;_;
She's A Tempest, A Cyclone, A Goddamned Hurricane
Date: 2008-01-02 07:29 pm (UTC)Yes. And I have hopes that they will do her justice - the writers have so far been frickin' fantastic with the choices they've made with their female characters, from Sokka asking to train with Suki down to the Toph/Katara turmoil. However, I have been burned too many times before with regards to endings and characters that I love to be comfortable.
After all, there was an instance when he had to choose between the world and Katara, and that didn't end well.
Are you talking about the season 2 finale? I actually read that as really romantic - sacrificing your personal happiness in order to protect the girl you like. And that's a pairing that I find really cute on the show but nowhere near as interesting as Katara/Zuko.
Plus I don't think Aang could satisfy Katara. I can't image a universe where they get together and something subtle isn't missing. For starts, Aang with always have the childlike playfulness, and Katara has so far raised herself, her brother, Aang, Toph, and anyone else who came along. She needs someone who's a.) an adult and b.) will take care of HER for a change. (And I'm still not convinced that Katara loves-loves Aang. To me, her feelings towards Aang are the platonic ideal of 'love him, but I'm not IN love with him.'
As for Mei/Zuko... god I sincerely hope that they have utterly broken up and we don't get any 'you must choose between Zuko and Azula' (unless she unhesitatingly chooses Azula's side.)
Frankly, I don't really have a lot of respect for Mei - she had basically the same family situation as Toph, yet Toph is awesome and went off and did things, while Mei went blank faced. To quote Sanzo's master (from Saiyuki) "if you're bored all the time, you must be a boring person."
Plus, she's emo and rather passive, which is a huge turn off for me (see Angel).
I really hope Mei remains Azula's loyal henchwomen, and we don't have some annoying 'but I love Zuko!' thing going on. This is the girl who wrote off her baby brother on Azula's say-so. She's no where NEAR good enough for Zuko. (And I'm sorry for the mini rant. I try to be reasonable, but the truth is, Mei really irritates me.)
what about future Fire Lady?
Date: 2008-01-02 08:22 pm (UTC)Hmm, I agree that the season 2 finale was very romantic, but I read it negatively in that Aang can't keep choosing Katara forever. He did so once, and I don't know if he regrets it, but he does realize it's made saving the world a lot harder. I'm not saying he's going to turn around and give up his dreams of Katara to save the world; but if he ever has to let her go in the future, I'm thinking he might actually do it.
I also agree with your interpretation of Katara's feelings. Not that I have anything against Katara/Aang (the finale was very romantic, and maybe kinda won me over for a few days), but that from her end, it's not terribly lover-like. When Aang kissed her in season 3, I expected more of a reaction from her, but she just blushed and looked doubtful. Maybe she's confused? If she isn't already in love with him, then she's as close to it as she'll ever get.
re: Mai
I totally haven't forgotten the deal with her baby brother, much less forgiven her for it. To be honest, despite the angsting at the Beach about an expressionless life, I can't sympathize with her at all; you make a great point with the comparison with Toph. I do think she genuinely cares for Zuko and that he cared for her the same way, and I do foresee a Zuko vs Azula showdown during which Mai will have to, finally, choose a side; but I really can't picture them lasting beyond the war. I dunno why; maybe this is just wishful thinking, again??
Plus, she's emo and rather passive, which is a huge turn off for me (see Angel).
Ditto, but I'm trying to write that off as a case of personal preference. At any rate, I wish she would talk less and do more. If she does choose Zuko and break out of Azula's clutches, good for her, maybe it'll inspire her to be more of a rebel who thinks about people outside of her narrow world. But if she continues siding with Azula, then you won't catch me blinking.
Yeah, I don't love her either. I'm trying to be objective, though, because Maiko is a very real ship, albeit one with dim prospects.
Firelady Would Be A Damn Perfect Job For Our Firebender.
Date: 2008-01-02 08:59 pm (UTC)Total word. I've come across some people recently who get all snippy about Avatars quote "girl powerness" unquote, and it really bugs me. That's one of the most fantastic things about this show, imho, how good they are at writing strong women, and how many of them there are.
Hmm, I agree that the season 2 finale was very romantic, but I read it negatively in that Aang can't keep choosing Katara forever.
Ummm, I was referring to the "sorry Katara" scene, which I read as Aang trying to let Katara go into order to save her/the world.
she just blushed and looked doubtful
Yeah, I didn't see the passion there that I saw in Suki/Sokka's kisses, Sokka/Yue, or Zuko/ that girl from 'Tales of Ba Sing Se'.
do think she genuinely cares for Zuko and that he cared for her the same way, and I do foresee a Zuko vs Azula showdown during which Mai will have to, finally, choose a side; but I really can't picture them lasting beyond the war. I dunno why; maybe this is just wishful thinking, again??
It's not wishful thinking. There a number of reasons why I don't think that Mai/Zuko is a long term thing - while I think they care about each other, I don't think Mai actually knows the real Zuko - she knew him prior to his banishment, and afterwards when he was playing at being the perfect Prince (which is was doing to a lesser or greater extent from basically from 3x01-3x09, not just when he was in the War Room with his father). So I don't think she really know the actual Zuko. (Tangentially, I really think she would make a horrible Fire Lady, without even Azula's evil competence. She doesn't care about anything - that is not someone I'd want in a position of power.) As for Mai choosing a side.... I can't think of a situation in which Mai picking Zuko's side over Azula's wouldn't feel... really trite. I think (hope) that that's too much of a cliche path for Mike and Bryan to go down.
I'm trying to be objective, though, because Maiko is a very real ship, albeit one with dim prospects.
Personally, I find it totally possible to objectively violently dislike this ship. Especially since I have no problem with other relationships that 'got in the way of' Katara/Zuko.
Just because it's canon doesn't mean I have to ship them. (Which is, right there, the fanfic writer's creed, isn't it?)
Re: what about future Fire Lady?
Date: 2008-01-02 09:17 pm (UTC)Still, I see Mei eventually betraying Azula more than I see Ty Lee, and that's mostly because of Zuko. Then again I also see Mei choosing Azula over Zuko; it's 55/45 odds in my mind.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 09:03 pm (UTC)Actually, I loved that. As great as it would have been for Katara to "heal" Zuko in season 2, ultimately he's stronger for having made the decision himself, and the decision didn't rely or involve any girlfriends pushing him one direction or another. If Iroh, who had incredible sway over Zuko, couldn't change him, it would have been disappointing to see Katara or Mei do it. Nope, he did it himself, and I love that. I just wish it hadn't taken so LONG. The writers wasted his character stalling for the last 10 episodes.
Mei and Zuko, if the question of formal engagement never came up, would be easy to break apart. Their relationship so far has been very teenagery, from the nature of their fights to the way they relate to each other. It's exactly like watching people date in high school, which they would be at their age. (I'm guessing Mei is somewhere between 14 and 16.) It's just that people marry so young in this universe.
I'm expecting her to choose Zuko, but also for this choice to come too late to save their romantic relationship.
I also think she'd choose Zuko (I read an awesome fic about that, a Maiko fic done right) because it's just a feeling I get, and for normal people I'd say that yeah, it would probably come to late to save their romance. But this is ZUKO. He is emotionally needy to the extreme. He needs Iroh (visits to jail for advice even after he PUT Iroh in jail???), he needs Mei to show she has some kind of passion or affection for him (the beach), he needs Azula to respect him, he needs Daddy to love him, he needs the Avatar's group to welcome. The boy is a big ball of emotional NEED. Also, he himself offered to switch sides late in the game, asking for a second chance. So if Mei told him, "I'll join you and I care about you" even in the 11th hour, he'd probably take her back if he's not involved with anyone else since. He just wants so badly for someone to love him.
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Date: 2007-12-29 03:26 am (UTC)And I second the love of ruthless!Katara. It really fits her, and I'm so glad they're exploring it. I agree about your comment on friction. On reason that I ship Katara/Zuko is that they HAVE friction, which Aang and Katara.... really don't.
(And she would make a fabulous queen.)
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Date: 2007-12-29 06:29 am (UTC)I know. Threatening someone's life without an ounce of hesitation? Oh babe, you belong in the Fire Nation.
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Date: 2007-12-29 03:24 pm (UTC)