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Zuko is so painfully awkward. It's hilarious and sad. What's interesting, though, is that I thought, after season 2 Zuko, that Zuko in the Gaang would be sullen, more quiet. Now I'm getting a sense that this prediction was wrong... if anything, Zuko's doing what he always does when he wants something: he's trying to hard. Of course, we won't know until next episode what his day to day interactions with the team are like, but I'm guessing he'll be like he was this time: earnest enough to give you a toothache, but awkward enough to stub your toe on. It's going to be a challenge for him, but I'm happy that he keeps looking to his uncle for inspiration. Now only if we knew what happened to Iroh!
How did combustion man die? Did he explode himself or fall? That part confused me.
Watching Toph crawl away from Zuko was possibly the most sad and uncomfortable scene of this entire season so far--by far the hardest thing to watch. I actually wanted to stop, even though I didn't. That was much worse than the bloodbending. Toph afraid and helpless is something a fan should never have to see.
Still, this greatly satisfies my desire for Zuko/Toph OTFriendship. [![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
high_born] I've thought since Toph was introduced that she was the most likely to understand Zuko's upbringing and his frustrations. And I was right! Toph made the first overtures of friendship, and even though she got burned, she's realistic enough to understand that it was an accident, and still supports his joining the group.
Sokka as the nervous host was amusing.
Zuko and Katara.... awesomeness. She made the allusion to their conversation in the caves, which was a hanging plot thread that I was hoping would get resolved at their next meeting, and it was. I love her death threat. Katara is badass like nobody's business. I totally agree that of the group, she'd be the first to make a death threat and mean it. (Sokka would be second.) I think it's partly their hard childhoods, partly the fact that they're children of a warrior, and partly the fact that Katara, in her heart, has potential to be vengeful, self-righteous, and a more than a little bit ruthless. She understands that someone needs to give Zuko this message, and she's the one to do it. How war changes people! Katara right now is growing up very fast, and is quite a different person from the girl at the South Pole. She's a leader, a bodyguard, an advisor, and a fierce warrior. I'm proud. You tell it to him, girl. (What a queen you'd make!)
From a shipper standpoint, I've no complaints either. I like friction, helps with the UST! There's not really any UST yet, but there's plenty of time for that later. Now I want to see these two work out their issues and become trusted companions, first.
From the other side of the shipper argument: I thought Katara was going to talk to Aang about their personal feelings, but it was all business. That's one of the things that hampers this pairing: they're always worried about business! It reminds me of cop shows, where the two partners are attractive people but each puts work first so any progress they make is agonizingly slow, and their relationship is always sacrificed to the mission.
EDIT: I just remembered another thing I loved... the fact that Appa likes Zuko. He licked him twice even. That's the seal of approval right there. And Zuko took it so well! He just endured and didn't even comment, or make the grossed-out faces that Sokka makes when that stuff happens to him. Sokka's retort about animal cruelty was pretty choice, too. One of his best lines this season. (although his deadpan "Not really, since you followed us all over the world," line was pretty good too.)
Zuko is so painfully awkward. It's hilarious and sad. What's interesting, though, is that I thought, after season 2 Zuko, that Zuko in the Gaang would be sullen, more quiet. Now I'm getting a sense that this prediction was wrong... if anything, Zuko's doing what he always does when he wants something: he's trying to hard. Of course, we won't know until next episode what his day to day interactions with the team are like, but I'm guessing he'll be like he was this time: earnest enough to give you a toothache, but awkward enough to stub your toe on. It's going to be a challenge for him, but I'm happy that he keeps looking to his uncle for inspiration. Now only if we knew what happened to Iroh!
How did combustion man die? Did he explode himself or fall? That part confused me.
Watching Toph crawl away from Zuko was possibly the most sad and uncomfortable scene of this entire season so far--by far the hardest thing to watch. I actually wanted to stop, even though I didn't. That was much worse than the bloodbending. Toph afraid and helpless is something a fan should never have to see.
Still, this greatly satisfies my desire for Zuko/Toph OTFriendship. [
high_born] I've thought since Toph was introduced that she was the most likely to understand Zuko's upbringing and his frustrations. And I was right! Toph made the first overtures of friendship, and even though she got burned, she's realistic enough to understand that it was an accident, and still supports his joining the group. Sokka as the nervous host was amusing.
Zuko and Katara.... awesomeness. She made the allusion to their conversation in the caves, which was a hanging plot thread that I was hoping would get resolved at their next meeting, and it was. I love her death threat. Katara is badass like nobody's business. I totally agree that of the group, she'd be the first to make a death threat and mean it. (Sokka would be second.) I think it's partly their hard childhoods, partly the fact that they're children of a warrior, and partly the fact that Katara, in her heart, has potential to be vengeful, self-righteous, and a more than a little bit ruthless. She understands that someone needs to give Zuko this message, and she's the one to do it. How war changes people! Katara right now is growing up very fast, and is quite a different person from the girl at the South Pole. She's a leader, a bodyguard, an advisor, and a fierce warrior. I'm proud. You tell it to him, girl. (What a queen you'd make!)
From a shipper standpoint, I've no complaints either. I like friction, helps with the UST! There's not really any UST yet, but there's plenty of time for that later. Now I want to see these two work out their issues and become trusted companions, first.
From the other side of the shipper argument: I thought Katara was going to talk to Aang about their personal feelings, but it was all business. That's one of the things that hampers this pairing: they're always worried about business! It reminds me of cop shows, where the two partners are attractive people but each puts work first so any progress they make is agonizingly slow, and their relationship is always sacrificed to the mission.
EDIT: I just remembered another thing I loved... the fact that Appa likes Zuko. He licked him twice even. That's the seal of approval right there. And Zuko took it so well! He just endured and didn't even comment, or make the grossed-out faces that Sokka makes when that stuff happens to him. Sokka's retort about animal cruelty was pretty choice, too. One of his best lines this season. (although his deadpan "Not really, since you followed us all over the world," line was pretty good too.)
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this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 05:06 am (UTC)Word! I don't want marrieds, please no marrieds. That would just sit on my fanfic opportunities, and seriously, if there are engagements, I don't think I can trust myself not to break them up just to shake up canon, which is a lot of the point of fanfiction.
A 10-year-later sort of thing isn't so objectionable to me granted that it's not totally ship-related (which Rowling's undeniably was). I want to see Pirate King Katara, after all, working as some post-war diplomat, as anyone who isn't a housewife.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 05:13 am (UTC)Sokka, on the other hand... I can see him settling down within three years of marriageable age. I just see him chasing children around and being Mr. Dad meets Mr. Mom meets Everyone's Favorite Uncle.
Want to see a fanart I made? It's not painted yet, but it will be. Next I'm going to try Katara.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 07:35 pm (UTC)The Swamp tribe studies sound really promising for Katara, but I doubt the show would work in that direction; the Swampbenders were so exaggeratedly country that I think they're just comic relief. Maybe she'll study with the Northern Water Tribe? Either way, the Water siblings will most definitely return to the Southern Water Tribe, and maybe Katara would try to further involve them with the more advanced North. It's a shame, though; she would be perfect for the Fire Nation.
To be honest, Katara's so awesome that it's almost inevitable for her to end up with an awesome, awesome career; I think I trust the creators enough to enjoy whatever they've planned for her. There's still this little nagging dread, though, that she might end up married to Aang who'll be zooming from place to place to restore peace and stuff, and that she'll be cooking and raising children, and... :(
I like that fanart; the lineart, by the way, is so clear and awesome. O_O The two are so priceless! It looks like Zuko's gotten used to Momo's antics already, like there's nothing weird about babysitting the lemur. I want to see Zuko + animals interaction; they'll be his friends until the Gaang accepts him completely, and he'll disclose his worries to Appa that he might never fit in...
Will you be include a background? Since there's fruit, it should be outdoors. Maybe something jungle-y, or one of their standard trees-and-campground sceneries?
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 08:30 pm (UTC)I highly doubt they'd make her barefoot and pregnant to Aang's superhero. Far more likely is that they'd travel spreading peace together... something I'd honestly rather see him do with Toph, who is as nomadic of spirit as Aang is.
I want Zuko + animal interaction too; I secretly love fics that have Zuko and Momo antics.
I was thinking something very basic and outdoorsy, yeah.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 05:18 am (UTC)It's probably a hangover from when
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 06:54 pm (UTC)YES. Katara would be SUCH a kickass queen, it's not even funny for the poor subordinates involved - just scary. And Toph is made for a life of crime; it wouldn't be the first time she got her face on a wanted poster, after all. Gyaaah, that would be so cool... *whimpers longingly* And and Toph could get away with all her not-so-evil, Robin Hood-esque misdeeds but just barely, and Katara's advisors would make half-joking comments about pretty-eyed despots, and and
ZukoConsort would totally be placating and sane beside her feminista scariness except for those instances when he isn't.That fic! I would read that! You guys might not think it sounds like something the fandom would take very seriously, but I have no doubts that you would pull it off. Was this part of that Zutara vampire AU you were concocting some time ago? It also just occurred to me that I have never read an AtLA vampfic. Our fandom needs more vampires.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 08:45 pm (UTC)THe same AU bunny. I just refer to it as "the Vampverse AU" and I'm only ever talking about that. We put so much detail into outlining it that sometimes I feel like its already been written.
There's been some vampire fic, but I've never read any of them. I wouldn't be concerned about fandom taking it seriously or not; the question never occurred to me. Now that you made me think about it... I'd say that I always approach fanfic with the confidence that as an author, I can control whether people take it seriously or not. I'll make it funny if I want to be funny, I'll make it serious if I want to to be taken seriously. In this case, we were going for horror-adventure-drama, and taking it quite seriously. You're looking at a couple of Buffy fans, after all. It's past the point when I'd probably ever actually write the thing, but it hangs in the back of my thoughts, sometimes.
it wouldn't be the first time she got her face on a wanted poster, after all
That's one of the finest and clearest predictions of Toph's future that I've heard. I can easily imagine it-- her skirting around the law, dodging it for fun and profit. I can imagine Toph doing it for the fun as much as for the money; money would just be a way of keeping score.
She would concentrate her efforts in the EK because it's so big, and if she started to spread into the FN... an inconspicuous messenger would show up at her hideout one day, with a letter from FL Zuko. And Toph would be all, "He sent me a cease & desist LETTER? Haha, that's real funny." And the messenger would be, like, "Just feel the wax seal and let me read it to you so I can go back to my lunch." And it would be really short, just two lines or something, saying "Dear Old Friend, please take your people and move your enterprise outside of my country. No matter how many despicable capers you engage in, I'll never put your face on a FN wanted poster, so stop trying. Yes, I heard about your collection. It won't happen, so go home and leave my citizens to be swindled by their own people. You may stop by the Palace on your way out, for tea, if you wish."
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 08:48 pm (UTC)Not that I think Aang's going to look at anyone besides Katara in the next episodes, but I'm still afraid Toph might die. I mean.... Jet died, and that just proves they're willing to kill characters under 20.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 07:26 am (UTC)Break them, break them! I'm just holding out that nothing further happens with Mei and Zuko, because I'd find some permanent thing between them harder to break than Katara/Aang, which is just too easy to split apart.
And yes - a 10 year later thing showing what they're doing would be cool. I just really don't trust the creators to have Katara doing something as awesome as her talents deserve, and not just following Aang around continuing to be his mother/sister/girlfriend. She is FAR to awesome for that.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 07:12 pm (UTC)I have the same worries! None of that support-the-hero nonsense; bah to that idea. If the creators were to sit back and let the show write itself, they'd find that there's no WAY Katara wouldn't work her way into a position of supreme and inadvisable power! You and Rashaka are very, very correct when you say she's now scary and ruthless and kindhearted but still scary and ruthless. If she ends up trailing after Aang post-war and throwing aside what she could accomplish to support him/bear his children instead, I will probably throw a massive, massive fit.
re: ships to break!
Word to the "just too easy." Despite all of the development of Katara/Aang, I think we already see no matter how compatible they are, there's an equal chance of it lasting and falling apart. After all, there was an instance when he had to choose between the world and Katara, and that didn't end well. I also agree with you about seeing the two as really, really familial; it's only recently that I've been convinced the two share an actual romance.
Mai and Zuko... might break themselves up. Zuko already made his choice between the woman and the world, I think; how awesome is that? And Mai's loyalties seem to lie primarily with Azula, at least for the time being. She did seem to resent Azula for manipulating Zuko/manipulating her, so that'll probably come into play later when Mai has to choose between Zuko with his cause and Azula with her conceit. I'm expecting her to choose Zuko, but also for this choice to come too late to save their romantic relationship. And then there's the Katara factor~
But hey, the last bit is just wishful thinking. Really wishful thinking. ;_;
She's A Tempest, A Cyclone, A Goddamned Hurricane
Date: 2008-01-02 07:29 pm (UTC)Yes. And I have hopes that they will do her justice - the writers have so far been frickin' fantastic with the choices they've made with their female characters, from Sokka asking to train with Suki down to the Toph/Katara turmoil. However, I have been burned too many times before with regards to endings and characters that I love to be comfortable.
After all, there was an instance when he had to choose between the world and Katara, and that didn't end well.
Are you talking about the season 2 finale? I actually read that as really romantic - sacrificing your personal happiness in order to protect the girl you like. And that's a pairing that I find really cute on the show but nowhere near as interesting as Katara/Zuko.
Plus I don't think Aang could satisfy Katara. I can't image a universe where they get together and something subtle isn't missing. For starts, Aang with always have the childlike playfulness, and Katara has so far raised herself, her brother, Aang, Toph, and anyone else who came along. She needs someone who's a.) an adult and b.) will take care of HER for a change. (And I'm still not convinced that Katara loves-loves Aang. To me, her feelings towards Aang are the platonic ideal of 'love him, but I'm not IN love with him.'
As for Mei/Zuko... god I sincerely hope that they have utterly broken up and we don't get any 'you must choose between Zuko and Azula' (unless she unhesitatingly chooses Azula's side.)
Frankly, I don't really have a lot of respect for Mei - she had basically the same family situation as Toph, yet Toph is awesome and went off and did things, while Mei went blank faced. To quote Sanzo's master (from Saiyuki) "if you're bored all the time, you must be a boring person."
Plus, she's emo and rather passive, which is a huge turn off for me (see Angel).
I really hope Mei remains Azula's loyal henchwomen, and we don't have some annoying 'but I love Zuko!' thing going on. This is the girl who wrote off her baby brother on Azula's say-so. She's no where NEAR good enough for Zuko. (And I'm sorry for the mini rant. I try to be reasonable, but the truth is, Mei really irritates me.)
what about future Fire Lady?
Date: 2008-01-02 08:22 pm (UTC)Hmm, I agree that the season 2 finale was very romantic, but I read it negatively in that Aang can't keep choosing Katara forever. He did so once, and I don't know if he regrets it, but he does realize it's made saving the world a lot harder. I'm not saying he's going to turn around and give up his dreams of Katara to save the world; but if he ever has to let her go in the future, I'm thinking he might actually do it.
I also agree with your interpretation of Katara's feelings. Not that I have anything against Katara/Aang (the finale was very romantic, and maybe kinda won me over for a few days), but that from her end, it's not terribly lover-like. When Aang kissed her in season 3, I expected more of a reaction from her, but she just blushed and looked doubtful. Maybe she's confused? If she isn't already in love with him, then she's as close to it as she'll ever get.
re: Mai
I totally haven't forgotten the deal with her baby brother, much less forgiven her for it. To be honest, despite the angsting at the Beach about an expressionless life, I can't sympathize with her at all; you make a great point with the comparison with Toph. I do think she genuinely cares for Zuko and that he cared for her the same way, and I do foresee a Zuko vs Azula showdown during which Mai will have to, finally, choose a side; but I really can't picture them lasting beyond the war. I dunno why; maybe this is just wishful thinking, again??
Plus, she's emo and rather passive, which is a huge turn off for me (see Angel).
Ditto, but I'm trying to write that off as a case of personal preference. At any rate, I wish she would talk less and do more. If she does choose Zuko and break out of Azula's clutches, good for her, maybe it'll inspire her to be more of a rebel who thinks about people outside of her narrow world. But if she continues siding with Azula, then you won't catch me blinking.
Yeah, I don't love her either. I'm trying to be objective, though, because Maiko is a very real ship, albeit one with dim prospects.
Firelady Would Be A Damn Perfect Job For Our Firebender.
Date: 2008-01-02 08:59 pm (UTC)Total word. I've come across some people recently who get all snippy about Avatars quote "girl powerness" unquote, and it really bugs me. That's one of the most fantastic things about this show, imho, how good they are at writing strong women, and how many of them there are.
Hmm, I agree that the season 2 finale was very romantic, but I read it negatively in that Aang can't keep choosing Katara forever.
Ummm, I was referring to the "sorry Katara" scene, which I read as Aang trying to let Katara go into order to save her/the world.
she just blushed and looked doubtful
Yeah, I didn't see the passion there that I saw in Suki/Sokka's kisses, Sokka/Yue, or Zuko/ that girl from 'Tales of Ba Sing Se'.
do think she genuinely cares for Zuko and that he cared for her the same way, and I do foresee a Zuko vs Azula showdown during which Mai will have to, finally, choose a side; but I really can't picture them lasting beyond the war. I dunno why; maybe this is just wishful thinking, again??
It's not wishful thinking. There a number of reasons why I don't think that Mai/Zuko is a long term thing - while I think they care about each other, I don't think Mai actually knows the real Zuko - she knew him prior to his banishment, and afterwards when he was playing at being the perfect Prince (which is was doing to a lesser or greater extent from basically from 3x01-3x09, not just when he was in the War Room with his father). So I don't think she really know the actual Zuko. (Tangentially, I really think she would make a horrible Fire Lady, without even Azula's evil competence. She doesn't care about anything - that is not someone I'd want in a position of power.) As for Mai choosing a side.... I can't think of a situation in which Mai picking Zuko's side over Azula's wouldn't feel... really trite. I think (hope) that that's too much of a cliche path for Mike and Bryan to go down.
I'm trying to be objective, though, because Maiko is a very real ship, albeit one with dim prospects.
Personally, I find it totally possible to objectively violently dislike this ship. Especially since I have no problem with other relationships that 'got in the way of' Katara/Zuko.
Just because it's canon doesn't mean I have to ship them. (Which is, right there, the fanfic writer's creed, isn't it?)
Re: what about future Fire Lady?
Date: 2008-01-02 09:17 pm (UTC)Still, I see Mei eventually betraying Azula more than I see Ty Lee, and that's mostly because of Zuko. Then again I also see Mei choosing Azula over Zuko; it's 55/45 odds in my mind.
Re: this is laaaate, I am always laaate
Date: 2008-01-02 09:03 pm (UTC)Actually, I loved that. As great as it would have been for Katara to "heal" Zuko in season 2, ultimately he's stronger for having made the decision himself, and the decision didn't rely or involve any girlfriends pushing him one direction or another. If Iroh, who had incredible sway over Zuko, couldn't change him, it would have been disappointing to see Katara or Mei do it. Nope, he did it himself, and I love that. I just wish it hadn't taken so LONG. The writers wasted his character stalling for the last 10 episodes.
Mei and Zuko, if the question of formal engagement never came up, would be easy to break apart. Their relationship so far has been very teenagery, from the nature of their fights to the way they relate to each other. It's exactly like watching people date in high school, which they would be at their age. (I'm guessing Mei is somewhere between 14 and 16.) It's just that people marry so young in this universe.
I'm expecting her to choose Zuko, but also for this choice to come too late to save their romantic relationship.
I also think she'd choose Zuko (I read an awesome fic about that, a Maiko fic done right) because it's just a feeling I get, and for normal people I'd say that yeah, it would probably come to late to save their romance. But this is ZUKO. He is emotionally needy to the extreme. He needs Iroh (visits to jail for advice even after he PUT Iroh in jail???), he needs Mei to show she has some kind of passion or affection for him (the beach), he needs Azula to respect him, he needs Daddy to love him, he needs the Avatar's group to welcome. The boy is a big ball of emotional NEED. Also, he himself offered to switch sides late in the game, asking for a second chance. So if Mei told him, "I'll join you and I care about you" even in the 11th hour, he'd probably take her back if he's not involved with anyone else since. He just wants so badly for someone to love him.