Naruto 397 - 404
Jun. 16th, 2008 12:34 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
timepiececlock397
If Madara's going to say that Itachi was secretly doing all of this to save the world... well, I already have a low opinion of the mangaka, so this can hardly make my opinion worse. I'm really in this for the characters now, not for the story. This stuff is cheap efforts at dramatic tension.
398
This is the lamest ret-con ever. Itachi wanting Sasuke's eyes was a much better approach.
399
This makes no sense. Also, given that anything a character says in Naruto is jossed or ret-conned to be a lie so many chapters later, and "truth" is never actually definitely true (very annoying and makes for inconsistent story-telling) we can already assume that half of this is bullshit.
I seriously think the mangaka has been making up the plot for Naruto as he goes along, for many many chapters now. He might have had a plan for the first half of the series, but I think when he started up again after the time-gap, he thought "Wouldn't it be cool if none of that was true, and it was all like THIS instead!" ::eyeroll::
On the plus side, Sasuke's being less and less annoying. Probably because he's wounded and tied up.
400
I want to edit my previous statement. It's the "lamest villain ret-con ever". The parts about the village and the clans are cool. This business of Itachi being secretly good and a pacifist all along is LAME-O LAMEY LAME LAME. What a cop-out.
Also, this makes NO SENSE. If all that was true, while try to kill Sasuke a few chapters ago? Why not just explain it? Even if Itachi was suicidal and wanted Sasuke to kill him, why endanger his beloved little brother's life by that terrible battle? Sasuke could have died any number of times. Not to mention leaving him in the hands of Orochimaru. The problem with making it up as you go along is all these stupid contradictions start popping up.
401, page 5: **MASSIVE EYEROLLING**
Also, I swear, if Sasuke joins the Akatsuki to protect Konoha from the inside like Big Brother did, I'm going to be severly disappointed.
There's a simple solution to Sasuke's current problems: go home! Seriously, whether Itachi or Madara are being truthful or lying, the best thing Sasuke can do right now is to go back to the village, ask for sanctuary, and get a life.
You know why this ret-con is lame? Because by saying "Itachi let you kill him", it invalidates the effort put forth. It takes an awesome fight, and makes it another disappointing illusion. It denies the audience AND the characters the chance for emotional pay-off. For a minute there, I was feeling pretty good for Sasuke, for him managing to actually defeat his brother, and at least this meant his betrayal had some value. And now all that's been invalidated. So where's our fucking emotional payoff?
I mean, I am all for betrayals and secrets and lies and conspiracies-- I love that shit. But there's such a thing as moderation and as appropriate use within the story as a whole. If we as the audience aren't allowed to feel victory for the characters at some point, then reading this just turns into a chore.
402
"The complete and utter destruction of leaf!"
Taking all the facts and all this new information and coming to the wrong conclusion completely. ::sigh:: You are a little fucktard, after all. A stupid one too, which is disappointing because I thought you were foolish but I never thought you were stupid until now. I mean, even your beloved Itachi warned you against Madara, and clearly wanted for you to go home and get a life.
Oh well. Naruto's going to save you. Even though you don't deserve it, he will.
The real suspense from chapter to chapter at this point is wondering how many geometric designs the mangaka can think of for Uchiha power-ups. This six-pointed star in a chemistry kind of shape? Not as cool as the spirally things. Lookin' a little desperate.
One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that if the Uchiha clanmembers had the ability to control the Nine Tails and protect the village, why was the attack 16 years ago so drastic? Why was the village almost wiped out? Why weren't the Uchiha being of any use?
403
"I'll resurrect the Uchiha my own way."
By spending a lifetime trying to eradicate the entire village of leaf? I guess basic arithmetic isn't Sasuke's strongest subject. I suppose nobody told him that subtraction is not addition, and in fact there's no way you can confuse the two, being fundamentally and completely opposite in definition.
If he really wants to resurrect the clan, and he hates Leaf, why not just move somewhere else? Why not take over Sound Village (or some of its territory), get married, and get a life? Raise his kids the way he thinks the clan should be raised, that kind of thing.
He doesn't think this crap through.
404
So Madara is the kage of Mist, right? Or is it Rain Village?
My earlier statement: "Also, I swear, if Sasuke joins the Akatsuki to protect Konoha from the inside like Big Brother did, I'm going to be severely disappointed."
Now I find out he's joining the Akatsuki for REAL, not for undercover, and that's even more disappointing. And as I said for chapter 402-403, stupid too. Sasuke's put himself through so much pain and suffering, and for what? He's a tool. He's a pawn. He was Itachi's pawn, Orochimaru's pawn, and now he's Madara's pawn.
It's hard to cheer for someone who lets himself be manipulated so consistently, over and over again. He hasn't learned ANYTHING. And that's the really lame part of this storyline. Killing Orochimaru didn't teach him anything. Killing Itachi didn't teach him anything. He hasn't learned the most important lesson: to thine own self be true. As long as Sasuke stays involved in Leaf's affairs, he'll always be someone's bitch dog. Even if he goes home, he'll be the Hokage's dog instead.
He should move somewhere else and get a life. Seriously.
But, of course, Sasuke's not that smart. That other guy said only an "idiot" would willingly go to Orochimaru, and that so far has proven true. Even though Sasuke is free of his mark (and now denied his stronger curse form, I assume), those events led him to being directly manipulated by Itachi then Madara. And he hasn't realized that he needs to "run away" and "cling to life" before he can find happiness or value in the world.
I feel like Sasuke's decisions in the last two chapters have turned him into a plot device, which bugs me. It makes no sense for his character, to tie himself to the Akatsuki. It would be smarter and in Sasuke's style more to simply go back to Leaf and assassinate the councilors. I don't see how the Sasuke of the last 400 chapters would suddenly want the total death and destruction of Leaf. What Madara told him should only affect his view of a small number of people, and Sasuke should be smart enough to realize taht, if he's as genius and the manga is always telling us he is. I also would have expected Sasuke to show more skepticism to Madara's story. He's made harsh insights while vulnerable before. He's foolish, but he never used to be stupid. The only reason he's suddenly turned into an idiot is because otherwise he wouldn't be a villain anymore. And the mangaka needs him to still be a villain so Naruto can save him. Plot device.
If Madara's going to say that Itachi was secretly doing all of this to save the world... well, I already have a low opinion of the mangaka, so this can hardly make my opinion worse. I'm really in this for the characters now, not for the story. This stuff is cheap efforts at dramatic tension.
398
This is the lamest ret-con ever. Itachi wanting Sasuke's eyes was a much better approach.
399
This makes no sense. Also, given that anything a character says in Naruto is jossed or ret-conned to be a lie so many chapters later, and "truth" is never actually definitely true (very annoying and makes for inconsistent story-telling) we can already assume that half of this is bullshit.
I seriously think the mangaka has been making up the plot for Naruto as he goes along, for many many chapters now. He might have had a plan for the first half of the series, but I think when he started up again after the time-gap, he thought "Wouldn't it be cool if none of that was true, and it was all like THIS instead!" ::eyeroll::
On the plus side, Sasuke's being less and less annoying. Probably because he's wounded and tied up.
400
I want to edit my previous statement. It's the "lamest villain ret-con ever". The parts about the village and the clans are cool. This business of Itachi being secretly good and a pacifist all along is LAME-O LAMEY LAME LAME. What a cop-out.
Also, this makes NO SENSE. If all that was true, while try to kill Sasuke a few chapters ago? Why not just explain it? Even if Itachi was suicidal and wanted Sasuke to kill him, why endanger his beloved little brother's life by that terrible battle? Sasuke could have died any number of times. Not to mention leaving him in the hands of Orochimaru. The problem with making it up as you go along is all these stupid contradictions start popping up.
401, page 5: **MASSIVE EYEROLLING**
Also, I swear, if Sasuke joins the Akatsuki to protect Konoha from the inside like Big Brother did, I'm going to be severly disappointed.
There's a simple solution to Sasuke's current problems: go home! Seriously, whether Itachi or Madara are being truthful or lying, the best thing Sasuke can do right now is to go back to the village, ask for sanctuary, and get a life.
You know why this ret-con is lame? Because by saying "Itachi let you kill him", it invalidates the effort put forth. It takes an awesome fight, and makes it another disappointing illusion. It denies the audience AND the characters the chance for emotional pay-off. For a minute there, I was feeling pretty good for Sasuke, for him managing to actually defeat his brother, and at least this meant his betrayal had some value. And now all that's been invalidated. So where's our fucking emotional payoff?
I mean, I am all for betrayals and secrets and lies and conspiracies-- I love that shit. But there's such a thing as moderation and as appropriate use within the story as a whole. If we as the audience aren't allowed to feel victory for the characters at some point, then reading this just turns into a chore.
402
"The complete and utter destruction of leaf!"
Taking all the facts and all this new information and coming to the wrong conclusion completely. ::sigh:: You are a little fucktard, after all. A stupid one too, which is disappointing because I thought you were foolish but I never thought you were stupid until now. I mean, even your beloved Itachi warned you against Madara, and clearly wanted for you to go home and get a life.
Oh well. Naruto's going to save you. Even though you don't deserve it, he will.
The real suspense from chapter to chapter at this point is wondering how many geometric designs the mangaka can think of for Uchiha power-ups. This six-pointed star in a chemistry kind of shape? Not as cool as the spirally things. Lookin' a little desperate.
One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that if the Uchiha clanmembers had the ability to control the Nine Tails and protect the village, why was the attack 16 years ago so drastic? Why was the village almost wiped out? Why weren't the Uchiha being of any use?
403
"I'll resurrect the Uchiha my own way."
By spending a lifetime trying to eradicate the entire village of leaf? I guess basic arithmetic isn't Sasuke's strongest subject. I suppose nobody told him that subtraction is not addition, and in fact there's no way you can confuse the two, being fundamentally and completely opposite in definition.
If he really wants to resurrect the clan, and he hates Leaf, why not just move somewhere else? Why not take over Sound Village (or some of its territory), get married, and get a life? Raise his kids the way he thinks the clan should be raised, that kind of thing.
He doesn't think this crap through.
404
So Madara is the kage of Mist, right? Or is it Rain Village?
My earlier statement: "Also, I swear, if Sasuke joins the Akatsuki to protect Konoha from the inside like Big Brother did, I'm going to be severely disappointed."
Now I find out he's joining the Akatsuki for REAL, not for undercover, and that's even more disappointing. And as I said for chapter 402-403, stupid too. Sasuke's put himself through so much pain and suffering, and for what? He's a tool. He's a pawn. He was Itachi's pawn, Orochimaru's pawn, and now he's Madara's pawn.
It's hard to cheer for someone who lets himself be manipulated so consistently, over and over again. He hasn't learned ANYTHING. And that's the really lame part of this storyline. Killing Orochimaru didn't teach him anything. Killing Itachi didn't teach him anything. He hasn't learned the most important lesson: to thine own self be true. As long as Sasuke stays involved in Leaf's affairs, he'll always be someone's bitch dog. Even if he goes home, he'll be the Hokage's dog instead.
He should move somewhere else and get a life. Seriously.
But, of course, Sasuke's not that smart. That other guy said only an "idiot" would willingly go to Orochimaru, and that so far has proven true. Even though Sasuke is free of his mark (and now denied his stronger curse form, I assume), those events led him to being directly manipulated by Itachi then Madara. And he hasn't realized that he needs to "run away" and "cling to life" before he can find happiness or value in the world.
I feel like Sasuke's decisions in the last two chapters have turned him into a plot device, which bugs me. It makes no sense for his character, to tie himself to the Akatsuki. It would be smarter and in Sasuke's style more to simply go back to Leaf and assassinate the councilors. I don't see how the Sasuke of the last 400 chapters would suddenly want the total death and destruction of Leaf. What Madara told him should only affect his view of a small number of people, and Sasuke should be smart enough to realize taht, if he's as genius and the manga is always telling us he is. I also would have expected Sasuke to show more skepticism to Madara's story. He's made harsh insights while vulnerable before. He's foolish, but he never used to be stupid. The only reason he's suddenly turned into an idiot is because otherwise he wouldn't be a villain anymore. And the mangaka needs him to still be a villain so Naruto can save him. Plot device.
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no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 05:43 am (UTC)I *know*. Even assuming that Itachi thought he had no choice and thought he was being loyal, Sasuke doesn't have those limitations. Right now Sasuke can do whatever he wants. And Sasuke was always a blatantly, almost unattractively ambitious thinker. So why isn't he THINKING?
Also, word about Sakura and Naruto. I can see Sasuke assassinating the decision-makers before I can see him trying to publicly oust them, but either way he's ignoring the valuable resource that Naruto and Sakura represent. I mean-- he could even ABUSE their friendship, use them as a resource and manipulate them to get to the council members and that would STILL be a more logical and direct approach than letting Akatsuki take care of it for him.
no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 06:07 am (UTC)Fuck yes.
I would love to see more of this.
I am actually in the midst of plotting out a Sakura/Kakashi fic which has Sasuke coming back to Konoha, and I am really hoping (if I do my job right) that based on what the reader knows, it's super ambigous whether/how much of Sasuke's interest in Sakura is in HER and how much is in what she can do for him.
no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 06:30 am (UTC)But, knowing how you feel about making Sakura a badass, I think I can trust you as an author to handle it right. And I wouldn't mind reading about this older version of Sasuke who beat his brother and learned all these village secrets. Except not the stupid version of him.
no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 04:44 pm (UTC)I'm not usually into love triangles in general, but I dunno, the set up for Naruto kind of screams for them. Plus, what I really want to see in a love triangle fic is Sakura saying no to Sasuke, thinking that that means that she gets nobody.
And I really like the idea of Sasuke being SMART and taking advantage of the friends he has in Konoha.