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Jun. 28th, 2004
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Jun. 28th, 2004 12:55 amMy Best Friend is ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small} october_fay |
| Our 16 common interests are: angel the series, annie sewell-jennings, books, boys, buffy, buffy the vampire slayer, buffy/spike, cheese, fanfiction, fantasy, ice cream, icons, movies, randy giles, spuffy, the smashing pumpkins |
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I was thinking recently about typical "gender roles" in fantasty stories, anime, sci-fi, etc. And the way romance plays into that.
I loved the way Buffy made the hero a girl who is emotionally reserved and even cold-hearted at her worst moments, and took the guy and made him over-emotional, romantic, the believer who always wanted to "talk" about their relationship and where it was going. I loved that switch-- the way the men of BtVS play the more emotional, traditionally "female" roles of the relationships, while the women played the traditionally "male" roles. With nuances, of course. But that switch is something I find so interesting, most particularly in Buffy/Spike.
I was thinking about romance with enemies, too.
And I was thinking... wouldn't it be neat to have a story where the lead male is the protagonist, and he falls in love with the lead female, who is the archvillian. Not a redeemable flunky, the archvillain. The Big Bad. And she falls back in love with him, but not enough to stop her from being evil, as if love could stop one from being evil. Maybe one can do both. But the female would play the traditional male characteristics in the relationship, and the heroic male would have female characteristics.
It'd be like taking your normal female-centric-fantasty where she falls in love with a baddie: she's noble and stuff but still susceptible to his charms; he's mysterious and dark and can't choose between being evil and real love for the main girl.
Now switch them: the main emotional girl is now a guy, and the tall, dark and mysteriously sexy villian who might or might not feel some spark with the hero is now the woman.
And then get rid of the redeemable love factor--- she is the archvillain and remains so until the end. No redemption, not even half-way. She doesn't turn good... nevertheless she really *does* fall in love with him. It's presented as genuinely real, and he's the one who keeps wanting to persue it even though she's clearly evil and can't decide if she loves him or wants him dead.
And the hero really does fall in love with the villain. He doesn't fall for her then gradually fall for his female sidekick/friend and eventually realize that the one love is doomed while the other had promise--- no, his friend is only his friend and he really falls for his archenemy and then feels like complete shit when he has to win in the end, because even though he saves Townsville/the castle/the world etc, he can't change the love of his life to make her good, and he can't be bad for her, and would he even love her if she changed?
I feel like every time stories do romance between a villain and a hero, the villain is redeemable because he/she is the LittleBad, not the BigBad. And if the love interest villain becomes the Big Bad a la Angelus in season 2, then he is no longer the love interest (and he's not-- Buffy goes in without believing he's redeemable and that she can have him back as her lover Angel and believes instead that she's facing someone else, who isn't Angel and therefor not her lover.) But if you have something like the movie Labyrinth where the love interest villain *is* the Big Bad, then it's not so easy and there is no happy ending. But I've never seen that kind of love interest Big Bad be female.
Does this sound totally implausible to you guys? Like, "How could it be really real love if the person was irredeemable in the end and the hero was the good hearted person? Wouldn't a person that good of heart be repulsed by irrdeemable evil like most people?"
Or do you think it would make an interesting dynamic? A lead hero who acts like a lead heroine, in love with a lead villainess who acts like a lead villain.
I loved the way Buffy made the hero a girl who is emotionally reserved and even cold-hearted at her worst moments, and took the guy and made him over-emotional, romantic, the believer who always wanted to "talk" about their relationship and where it was going. I loved that switch-- the way the men of BtVS play the more emotional, traditionally "female" roles of the relationships, while the women played the traditionally "male" roles. With nuances, of course. But that switch is something I find so interesting, most particularly in Buffy/Spike.
I was thinking about romance with enemies, too.
And I was thinking... wouldn't it be neat to have a story where the lead male is the protagonist, and he falls in love with the lead female, who is the archvillian. Not a redeemable flunky, the archvillain. The Big Bad. And she falls back in love with him, but not enough to stop her from being evil, as if love could stop one from being evil. Maybe one can do both. But the female would play the traditional male characteristics in the relationship, and the heroic male would have female characteristics.
It'd be like taking your normal female-centric-fantasty where she falls in love with a baddie: she's noble and stuff but still susceptible to his charms; he's mysterious and dark and can't choose between being evil and real love for the main girl.
Now switch them: the main emotional girl is now a guy, and the tall, dark and mysteriously sexy villian who might or might not feel some spark with the hero is now the woman.
And then get rid of the redeemable love factor--- she is the archvillain and remains so until the end. No redemption, not even half-way. She doesn't turn good... nevertheless she really *does* fall in love with him. It's presented as genuinely real, and he's the one who keeps wanting to persue it even though she's clearly evil and can't decide if she loves him or wants him dead.
And the hero really does fall in love with the villain. He doesn't fall for her then gradually fall for his female sidekick/friend and eventually realize that the one love is doomed while the other had promise--- no, his friend is only his friend and he really falls for his archenemy and then feels like complete shit when he has to win in the end, because even though he saves Townsville/the castle/the world etc, he can't change the love of his life to make her good, and he can't be bad for her, and would he even love her if she changed?
I feel like every time stories do romance between a villain and a hero, the villain is redeemable because he/she is the LittleBad, not the BigBad. And if the love interest villain becomes the Big Bad a la Angelus in season 2, then he is no longer the love interest (and he's not-- Buffy goes in without believing he's redeemable and that she can have him back as her lover Angel and believes instead that she's facing someone else, who isn't Angel and therefor not her lover.) But if you have something like the movie Labyrinth where the love interest villain *is* the Big Bad, then it's not so easy and there is no happy ending. But I've never seen that kind of love interest Big Bad be female.
Does this sound totally implausible to you guys? Like, "How could it be really real love if the person was irredeemable in the end and the hero was the good hearted person? Wouldn't a person that good of heart be repulsed by irrdeemable evil like most people?"
Or do you think it would make an interesting dynamic? A lead hero who acts like a lead heroine, in love with a lead villainess who acts like a lead villain.
Let's just say though I had both positive and negative views of it, there was a lot more that I agreed with than I objected to.
Also, a group started clapping in the back of the theater when the young veteran talked about changing parties once he gets back home. And the theater cheered and clapped at the end. It was almost full, for a 4pm showing on a Monday afternoon.
Also, a group started clapping in the back of the theater when the young veteran talked about changing parties once he gets back home. And the theater cheered and clapped at the end. It was almost full, for a 4pm showing on a Monday afternoon.
(no subject)
Jun. 28th, 2004 09:47 pmFMA...
I'm trying to figure out a timeline and the ages of the characters. Of Roy Mustang, more specifically.
( spoilers up to epsiode 15 )
I need a freakin' timeline here.
I'm trying to figure out a timeline and the ages of the characters. Of Roy Mustang, more specifically.
( spoilers up to epsiode 15 )
I need a freakin' timeline here.
Blond Soldier: "If Edward can't use alchemy at all..."
Other Soldier: "He's just a foul-mouthed brat."
::snicker::
( Read more... )
EDIT: OMG! ( Read more... )
--
"I am the cursed farmer... I mean, I am the cursed armor..."
I love Al.
Other Soldier: "He's just a foul-mouthed brat."
::snicker::
( Read more... )
EDIT: OMG! ( Read more... )
--
"I am the cursed farmer... I mean, I am the cursed armor..."
I love Al.