Fruits Basket, chapter 108 -- non spoilery

[timepiececlock]

Chapter 108 of Furuba is up at stoptazmo.com.

I liked it, but reading highlighted one of the things that's been bugging me about the last few volumes in scanlations-- they're hard to understand. I can barely ever tell who's saying which thought bubble, and the sentences often aren't complete sentences or whole thoughts. Nearly every sentence is fragmented or jumps around. It's getting so bad that I'm almost certain it's a translation problem, not a writing problem. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be this bad if read in native Japanese.

It's making me consider going back to the purchased volumes again, because at least the translators would attempt to use complete English statements. Although I've mostly read the scanlations for the last five volumes because of timeliness, it takes so long for a chapter to come out these days, and I already avoid ff.net spoilers like the plague, so what do I care? While there might be infintessimal differences in how dialogue makes a scene read in English or Japanese, I have no guarantee that the scanlation gives any more accurate a translation than the professional translation done by Tokyopop.

I've put up with the fragmentation of dialogue for a long time now, but this chapter is almost breaking point for me. I think there was one statement from Shigure's speech bubbles that was a complete sentence in the conversation with Tohru. I reread it a few times and it still doesn't make sense to me. I get the gist of the conversation, but if I wanted to settle for "the gist" of what's going on I'd read the fucking chapter summaries. The only reason I wait so dilligently for the chapter scanlations is the promise of details. But it's getting downright annoying and I'm about ready to throw my hands in the air and say "fuck it" and buy them.

If the kind of grammar used in these scanlations were to be in a fanfic, I would've pitched that fic in the trash bin four volumes ago.

Comments

[fadingembers.livejournal.com]

A lot of the manga I've been reading lately gives me that problem (namely, the "Who the Hell said that?" bubbles), so it may not be the fault of the scanlators, unless in their translation, they white out any art inside the bubble that clues you in as to who's talking (the onigiri or dog or cat, etc.)

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I don't know what the reason is-- I don't remember having this problem 6 or 7 volumes ago, and some of the older volumes were done by the same translation group. Maybe they've gotten lazy?

It's not just the lack of knowing who said what-- it's a real fragmentation of sentences problem. I know enough about linguistics to know that just it being in another language doesn't mean that language doesn't have complete sentences the way English does. The concept of sentence structure is universal. And even the excuse that "it's dialogue" and "dialogue doesn't always have complete sentences" can't excuse the crapola grammar I'm having to slog through here. I highly doubt it's this difficult to read in Japanese.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

Is the current translation group the only game in town? I know of another place that archives FB scans. It's where I was reading the manga when I was attempting to get into the series. I can link you there, but I'm not sure if they have the newer chapters, tho.

Also? I posted about DW.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Yep, they're the only kids on the block. I just checked another site that was linked below, and they're posting the same scanlations. I think I'll just go read them at B&N or Walden Books or something.


Excellent! I shall go read your post.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

I saw the link and that was the one I planned to give you. :/

The lot of you have gotten me interested in Doctor Who as entire whole, instead of just this current incarnation. Which is cool, because I never knew what DW was really about and I've been missing out for years.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

DW fandom is like a candy store for incoming fans. You enter in the middle and you know that not only is there three more actors and 10+ years of future canon yet to come, but there's 8 more actors and DECADES of canon yet to catch up on! And there's fanfiction and spin-off books and radio specials and millions of fellow fans waiting for you to join in their revelry. You never need to worry about running out of your favorite thing.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/doctorwho_eps/231468.html

[buttercup0222.livejournal.com]

I've been having that problem too, though I assumed it's because I'm fairly unused to reading manga. But yes, there have been several times where I've read the page over and over and still couldn't figure out what the character was supposed to be saying.

I also go here (http://www.thespectrum.net/manga.shtml#furuba) for FB translations. They're a couple chapters behind stoptazmo, but you can look at the manga directly on the site instead of having to download every chapter. You might try that to see if you feel it reads better.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

It's not you. Manga shouldn't read like this-- it should read like a regular comic or book, in terms of grammar. Usually it's easier to understand because the translations are better.


That's the same translation group-- I recognize the pink Tohru card at the end. There's only one group doing FB scanlations right now, though they're hosted on several sites.

[buttercup0222.livejournal.com]

Besides being unclear, I have also noticed the bad grammar and rampant misspellings. I'd buy the actual manga, but it's so long. It would take forever!

That's the same translation group

Doh!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I'm just going to read them in the bookstore, I think. Takes less than an hour for one volume.

[flutingfrenzy.livejournal.com]

It really has gotten to the point where Fruits Basket (either by itself or in English translations; the non-Japanese-speakers among us may never know) has become a bit of a caricature of itself. Not that I won't be continuing to read every damn chapter and loving it, but it would be nice if we could at least figure out whose thought bubbles we're reading.

(Volume 13 is out now. I read it today in the bookstore. It's the awesome one with Yuki's parent/teacher conference and Momo and Kureno and the class trip. SO MUCH LOVE.)

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Glad to know I'm not the only one with the confusion.


(Like I said below, I think I'll do that too. I'll find a Barnes & Noble and park myself in a chair and reread volumes 10-13 or something.)

[sub-divided.livejournal.com]

Completely Futile wrote and article about all of the ambiguities present in the Fruits Basket translation that are not present in the original Japanese. It's the official translation under discussion, not the scanslations -- but I've read the scanslation, and they're worse. If you're having problems, it's not the material, it's the translation.

(This hasn't always been true, but these days I think most official translations are better than most fan translation, just in the writing quality and transmission of nuance. Of course, they are also much more Americanized; for some people it's a question of taste.)

[sub-divided.livejournal.com]

(This is the link to the article itself)

[sub-divided.livejournal.com]

Nevermind, you just have to scroll down ("Volume 7 Translation Notes").

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

If you're having problems, it's not the material, it's the translation.

That's what I expected. Frankly, this series is too smart to have the problem be with the material. I can tell that much.

Thanks for the link. I remember reading that article a long time ago. At this point I'll take slightly-altered-Shigure over nonsensical-gibberish-Shigure.

(This hasn't always been true, but these days I think most official translations are better than most fan translation, just in the writing quality and transmission of nuance. Of course, they are also much more Americanized; for some people it's a question of taste.)

I've always been of the opinion that a professional translator probably knows more about nuance and diction than a fan translator, but that was balanced by the "Americanizing" that can happen. However, given the state of the anime/manga industry in America today, and given what I see in most dubs produced in the last three years... I think the tendency to "Americanize" has really lessened/improved. Mostly I've noticed this in dubs, but I've seen some of it in manga too. Character names are changed less and if they are there's usually a pertinant reason (Ahiru>>Duck in Princess Tutu anime, for example), and Japanese terms get used a lot more (I've seen this in Naruto and Blade of the Immortal.) So right now, Americanization doesn't particularly make me feel worried.


I think I'll just have to find a Barnes & Noble and park myself in a chair and reread volumes 10-13 or something.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_rednovember/]

Whoa. I was only able to read Fruits Basket up to Volume 4 or something, quite awhile ago, because my friend lent them to me. Then he and I had a falling-out and now we don't talk so T__T.

Thanks so much for the link; I'll check it out, even though there are grammar and translation problems like you said. I can put up with quite a bit (I tutor some ESL students in English writing) but if it gets too much I'll probably stop as well.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

If you've only read up to volume 4, don't bother with the link. Just go down to your library and request volumes 5-13. Or buy them. I had only read the scanlations from chapters 6 forward because they were out before the official translation. I have volumes 1-5 in the official translation purchased already. If they're already out, fuck the scanlations and go for the professional version. A lot of public libraries carry manga these days, and Fruits Basket is one of probably the 5 most popular-selling manga series in the US right now, so likelihood is high you can find it in a library. If not... I'd recommend forking over the money for it. Or alternate buying volumes with a friend.

Or do what I did with the 14th volume of Blade of the Immortal: take an hour and read the whole volume in a Barnes & Noble store. You know, sitting on their nice fluffy chairs. Very free that way, and no computer squinting problems.


Fruits Basket it the manga I recommend above all others-- if you liked the first 4 volumes, you'll love where it goes in the future. This is truly an amazing series, which is why I'm so upset at the fan-translation quality as of late. It really doesn't do justice to this manga, and the very fact that I've put up with it for so long reminds me of how deeply I love this series. I could squee about FB for days. The depth of character development over the span of the volumes-- it's amazing. The characters grow and change emotionally and physically, and their relationships get more and more complex and the series gets darker and deeper and... gah I love it so much.

What I'm saying is, if you try it-- try getting the official version at a library or bookstore. If you absolutely *must* download the scanlations, then if it gets too annoying don't give up the series, just get the official version.

[umadoshi.livejournal.com]

It's *definitely* a translation problem--not that I read Japanese, but I just went through the scanlation and compared to the translation I originally read, and the scanlation version is just gibberish, esp. on some important things Shigure's saying. I've had issues with the scanlations before (starting with their habit of using the wrong honorifics or, in Rin's case, spending whole chapters having *everyone* refer to her by her nickname when most people call her "Isuzu"), but this is ridiculous. O_o

I'm not in a position to pass translations around, but I just did a comparison post that includes the much-more-coherent version of Shigure's most-butchered dialogue, if that helps any.