various rants
Jan. 22nd, 2003 02:53 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
timepiececlockThis is a carry-over from another conversation I had in November, long time ago. It talks about the flaws in the fanatical B/A-er perception of Buffy's character (as I've oserved from visiting othe boards), and then about some differences in how Spike and Angel each loved Buffy.
Some fanatical B/A-ers (the very anti-Spike kind) have Buffy on this absurd pedastal--- she can do no wrong, and everything Spike gets he deserves, etc etc, as well as anyone else. I think that's silly because-- as was proved in CwDP--- Buffy was fucked up last year, and unable to love anyone or tolerate being loved. One of Joss' trademark story styles is to take a character who seemingly's got it all together, and knock them down a peg or twenty. Buffy's no different--- she gets the same harsh treatment. Besides, part of what makes an interesting hero is their flaws, and putting Buffy up like a paragon of everything bright and white and light means you're not watching her as the multi-dimensional person that ME is trying to convey, like they do with all their multi-layered characters.
Now that I think about it, that's also kinda the difference between S/B and A/B... Angel loved Buffy because she was his shining ideal. Spike loved Buffy for a similar reason-- because she was every bright and shining and strong and out of his reach. But he loved her FIRST as a warrior, a challenge, an equal. Then he loved her for being a hero, as I described above. And then, by season 6, he'd seen everything dark in her, everything she could be, and even though it was no picnic for either of them, he loved that part of her too, as strongly as the hero half. He loves her with her flaws, not despite them. It's why Buffy didn't feel she had to present any sort of mask when she was around him (before the sex, anyway)-- because nothing she could do or say or be would change his opinion of her.
Some fanatical B/A-ers (the very anti-Spike kind) have Buffy on this absurd pedastal--- she can do no wrong, and everything Spike gets he deserves, etc etc, as well as anyone else. I think that's silly because-- as was proved in CwDP--- Buffy was fucked up last year, and unable to love anyone or tolerate being loved. One of Joss' trademark story styles is to take a character who seemingly's got it all together, and knock them down a peg or twenty. Buffy's no different--- she gets the same harsh treatment. Besides, part of what makes an interesting hero is their flaws, and putting Buffy up like a paragon of everything bright and white and light means you're not watching her as the multi-dimensional person that ME is trying to convey, like they do with all their multi-layered characters.
Now that I think about it, that's also kinda the difference between S/B and A/B... Angel loved Buffy because she was his shining ideal. Spike loved Buffy for a similar reason-- because she was every bright and shining and strong and out of his reach. But he loved her FIRST as a warrior, a challenge, an equal. Then he loved her for being a hero, as I described above. And then, by season 6, he'd seen everything dark in her, everything she could be, and even though it was no picnic for either of them, he loved that part of her too, as strongly as the hero half. He loves her with her flaws, not despite them. It's why Buffy didn't feel she had to present any sort of mask when she was around him (before the sex, anyway)-- because nothing she could do or say or be would change his opinion of her.
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Date: 2003-01-23 03:37 pm (UTC)One of my sources of great angst in being a Buffy fan. I love Spike's character. I'm terribly fangirlish about it, actually. But if they introduced another love interest for him-- I'd hate it. Absolutely detest it, because as much as I love & lust for Spike as a character, I like him best when he's All!About!Buffy. And I think that's probably got a lot to do with the romantic in me who sees the all-consuming, life-changing love, and that makes his character more attractive. Meaning that my attraction to him would lesson if he could just turn it off and find True Love with a Mary Sue. Also, I like Buffy so much as a character-- first because she's cool and second because she's flawed, and human. And I've seen all the episodes of what comprises her life on screen, and I think that Spike, in the end, is the guy that is best suited to be by her side. How can you like a ship when you hate half of it?
I don't want Spike to be happy. I want Spike to be happy with Buffy. That's what I want from the show.
Did I explain that correctly? I swear, I've said this so many times that I get tired of my same speech.
::laugh:: Well, as a fan of your speeches, yep, I've heard that one. yep, it makes sense. And yep-- I still agree.
I think Joss is trying to tell us that 'eternal, Romeo/Juliet' love doesn't last and that relationships are really dark, people hold secrets, it's about sex and IF you can survive all that then we'll talk about love.
That's an excellent way of phrasing the idea, as it summarizes so much of why I like the B/S saga as its been given to us on the show. For a romantic story on screen; it's pretty unusual-- because it's not easy. And that makes it great fun to watch.
On that note can I say how much it annoys me fans that still call Spike a rapist. If we're going to say Spike is no good for Buffy because he's a rapist and she's better with Angel then we have to blame Angel for everything Angelus did.
:sigh: Don't let me get started on that; together we'll go on forever. Other shippers may say Spike isn't as good for Bufy or as loved by her as Angel was, or that he doesn't deserve he because he hasn't been punished enough, and that I'm a stupid lust-eyed fangirl for liking the ship, but at least we don't do hypocrisy as a general statement of ship dogma. As if any particular ship/fandom has to have actual "dogma" or "rules" anyway.
And Rashaka, I'm sorry I took over your LJ, I just had to post that. ;)
You're welcome, any time. The more you comment on my LJ--hell, the more pleased I'll be.