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timepiececlockThis is the most offensive, replusive, dehumanizing, mysoginistic, depraved, ugly thing I've seen in months. I want someone to stand up and say "This shit should be illegal."
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Date: 2003-07-12 01:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-12 02:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-12 02:08 pm (UTC)Art. 1 of our constitution binding all branches of the state and establishing a positive duty to protect explicitly states that human dignity is untouchable--
this doesn't just *touch* human dignity: it grabs it, plays with it and rips it to shreds.
What's wrong with people?
For it would clearly be too easy to just bash the business itself-- we cannot expect a conscience in the world of money and profits--, the reason why I'm so deeply horrified by this is the fact that there is some real *demand*. People coming from as far as Germany? This is beyond scary.
I have no words for this kind of perversion.
Re:
Date: 2003-07-12 02:22 pm (UTC)Well, I am planning to write to the Better Business Bureau and the Nevada Chamber of Commerce.
the reason why I'm so deeply horrified by this is the fact that there is some real *demand*.
What surprises me is not the demand-- there's enough content like this in prongraphy, books, films for me to believe it. What horrifies me is that enough people were willing to take the step to allow this to become a functioning business at all. The step between playing a video game about this and actually doing it... the level of cruelty involved in that step is what horrifies me.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-12 02:29 pm (UTC)Of course! I was just stating the obvious: that this is a symptom, not the disease.
No reason NOT to treat it-- I'm all for counter-measures against this very business as well...the harsher, the better.
What surprises me is not the demand-- there's enough content like this in prongraphy, books, films for me to believe it. What horrifies me is that enough people were willing to take the step to allow this to become a functioning business at all. The step between playing a video game about this and actually doing it... the level of cruelty involved in that step is what horrifies me.
Absolutely-- but I meant demand for this very (I'm disgusted to write it down) "service", this special sort of business in real life. Porn is one thing-- and ugly enough at that, if you really look at it--, but as you indicate, perverts overcoming all values of human society and equality make me wonder about how widespread these values are in fact...
Just curious..
Date: 2003-07-13 04:01 am (UTC)IF the girls in this horrible business are consenting of there own free will to do this, then surely forbiding it to "protect" there dignity and the dingity of womankind (which they are certainly bringing nto question by allowing themselves to be used this demenaing way!) is just enforcing a set of morals upon them that they might not ascribe too?
If you regulate human behaviour between consenting adults who chose to perfrom an activity of there own free will, surely you actually deman human dignity by saying some people can not make responsible choices for themselves? What about sadomaschoist clubs for example? The same moral and ethical judgements that would close this distastful business down, would close them down. Don't those people have a right of sexual expression? isn't that part of human dignity?
Re: Just curious..
Date: 2003-07-13 12:42 pm (UTC)Also, sex games are not a business in and of themselves. It's an encounter between two consenting adults. If there's money then it's prostitution, but the one does not equal the other.
Re: Just curious..
Date: 2003-07-13 12:51 pm (UTC)I only bring it up because in the Uk, Police have actually arrested sado-masochists and prosecuted them regardless of each partners consent.
Certianly the idea that money chages hands makes this activity even more morally repugnant, but forgive me, I am not a 100% if I could accept the government has enought moral authority to ban it.
Re: Just curious..
Date: 2003-07-13 12:58 pm (UTC)Really? Huh. I didn't know that.
Ban it? I don't think anything that stringent would need to or even could happen. There's a lot of easier ways than passing a _law_ to get something stopped. For example, I've got a list of people I'm currently looking up contact information for:
Nevada State Licensing Board
Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce
The L.V. Mayor
The sponsoring business itself
If this truly is unsafe for the women being hunted, you could complain about that, and that could shut it down. Also, if enough people complain about it in general, that will get the attention of whichever hotel/business is paying for it.
Re: Just curious..
Date: 2003-07-13 01:08 pm (UTC)Thats true enough. Though I do worry that the world is full of sicko's and people driven to desperation by economic circumstances, which is not a good combination for mankind.
Seriously though good luck with the campaign. If you need any help (though what I could do I don't know just ask).
Re: Just curious..
Date: 2003-07-13 01:15 pm (UTC)Re: Just curious..
Date: 2003-07-13 01:17 pm (UTC)If you found the sponsoring business couldn't you organise a boycott (assuming they where a national business)?
Re: Just curious..
Date: 2003-07-13 10:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-12 02:13 pm (UTC)No, wait I can.
People has a tendency to disappoint me. It makes you feel like society is going backwards. All the way to the caveman times.
Sad, really sad.
Re:
Date: 2003-07-12 02:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-12 02:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-12 03:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-12 02:57 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2003-07-12 03:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-12 03:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-13 12:18 am (UTC)Shocking on many levels to my idealistic side and sadly, not shocking to my realist side. But definitely, people should take a stand against this. Perhaps, what is most shocking to me is the women willing to do this. I mean I can't imagine. Some of them must be very desperate...others I suppose just like the women who appear on the Howard Stern show naked and allow men to circle their "problem areas" while laughing at them -- I suppose that is a sort of desperation/insanity in itself.
Just another reason I don't care to ever visit Sin City, I suppose. Although, it's no loss...as it's never really appealed to me. Still, just when you thought it couldn't get more tacky, trashy and distasteful...:sad sigh:
~*~JD
Re:
Date: 2003-07-13 12:32 am (UTC)I think there's a difference. I think something like going on a show-- that's for entertainment and the novelty of saying "I did that." The hunting thing reminds me more of the desperation that can be appealed to through large amounts of money, like 1,000 dollars.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-13 12:45 am (UTC)Both requires a woman to completely throw her sense of self respect out the window. A lot of the women who appear on Howard Stern, allowing him and other men appearing on the show to critique their bodies, make fun of them, throw food items at them, and whatever else, do so because they hope (unrealistically) to gain some sort of fame from it. Thus, making their fortunes. Some have porn websites, others are wannabe actresses, etc. Some even think that they'll somehow get to hook up with a celebrity. Though they are two different things, the intense desire for fame and the intense desire for wealth are very much within the same family. And not something you should sell your soul (or self respect) for.
I realize that some of these women may be in desperate financial situations where they perceive this to be the "only way out." But surely not all of them. It was the rest that I was comparing to some of the more desperate women of the Howard Stern show. I mean, I don't think a lot of them (after it's over) would want to brag and say "I did that." Especially the ones that leave crying.
~*~JD
no subject
Date: 2003-07-13 04:09 am (UTC)Isn't the best thing to do for human female dignity and indeed human dignity as a whole, to work on creating a society where by no women will ever be economically coerced into selling herslef in the degrading manner you describe on this radio show (We don't get Howard Stern where I am so this all new to me) and the business mentioned above?
But what if we did this, and some people still chose to do these things (just hypothetically). Would we as a society have the right to stop them because there actions demane not just themseves but all women? Or would there own personal liberty to do as they pleased overide that?
Re:
Date: 2003-07-13 12:39 pm (UTC)Ok...here's where I get contraversal...
Date: 2003-07-13 03:01 am (UTC)It is all the things you say. It would be illegal in the UK. But, I have to say I don'think it should be...
No I don't think it is harmless fun or anything. But IF the women taking part in it are volunteers, chosing of the there own free will to partake in this, then they have this right. The state can not be permitted to legislate the nature of relationships between adults that freely consent to acts, simplely because many people find it distasteful. The best the state can do in this case is perhaps charge the man with an assault offence, but if the women refuse to prosecute, there is nothing, and indeed should be nothing they can do about it.
Come at it from another angle. All over the US, and indeed there are clubs for people who get sexual gratification from the receiving and inflicting of pain on each other. They gather consensually and whip, beat or whatever to each other. Much of that activity is going to be men beating women soa rgueable mysognistic and demeaning to women, but women who consent to it. IF you outlaw this hunting for bambi outrage, you must also outlaw these clubs. But if the beats are consentual (And there are as many men who enjoy being beatne by women as visera-versa) are these acts morally wrong?
Protecton of human dignity has to exent to protecting those who CHOSE to perform actions which others find distasteful. Otherwise you have a moralality autocracy the kind right wing chrisitan political parties are trying to set up all over the rest of the world.
Re: Ok...here's where I get contraversal...
Date: 2003-07-13 12:49 pm (UTC)Re: Ok...here's where I get contraversal...
Date: 2003-07-13 12:57 pm (UTC)(having said that much research links outbursts of mysognistic violence to sexual activities so I guess I find it hard to believe there isn't a underlying sexal element for the weirdo's that do this)
I am just concerned that the moral authority for banning this is unsound, that IF (and that is a big IF when economic's are involved. Doing it because it is that or starve is hardly a choice )the woman have chosen to take part, then we shouldn't restrict that "freedom".
Though I accept that perhaps no one should be allowed to make money of this.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-13 05:15 pm (UTC)No, you don't get involved in a scenario like that because you're bored with photo safaris or hunting caribou. You do it for the male comraderie, and for the pleasure it brings you to see naked, scratched up, sunburned, exhausted women whom you hope to have "branded" with your paint. I have no difficulty in believing that if the woman was in tears because the paintball hurt, that would heighten these men's pleasure. Wank rooms afterwards? My guess is that some of them probably jerk off during. I'm sure some of them do have graphic fantasies about literally killing these "bitches". But any random guy on the street could be having those same fantasies.
It's sexualized violence. But as I've said elsewhere, unless these women have been tricked into this, or are underage, not mentally competent, or drugged, I must expect that they have chosen to do this. The article mentions that one of the women has done it seven times. I refuse to infantilize grown women. Both women and men are 100% human, and that means each is capable of both depravity and transcendent selflessness.
I hate this whole business, but I don't see any grounds for trying to get it declared illegal. If any participants aren't involved willingly, there are already statutes on the books about that. Assuming they have made a conscious choice, I see no reason to intervene on the grounds that it is hurting them. Hell, modelling isn't "safe" - pointy toe stilettos?
This is not the same thing as the "sex tours" in the Philippines or Thailand, where foreign men sign up for the opportunity of having sex with 10 year old girls and boys. It's not even the same as some segments of the mail order foreign bride industry.
You know what? I really need $1,000 right now. $2,500 would be something to sing about. But I would never, ever do something like this "Bambi" hunt. Never. I'd sooner stalk one of these smarmy big spenders and steal his money at gunpoint.
Hmm. Maybe we could get Disney to sue them for misusing the name "Bambi"....
Re:
Date: 2003-07-14 11:21 am (UTC)Well it's nice to get some back up. I was begining to feel like a lone voice!
Yeah set the mouse on them, that will sort 'em out!
no subject
Date: 2003-07-13 03:33 pm (UTC)But I understand that it is difficult to draw the line between what is dangerous to society and allowing people freedom.
But this is so sick.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-17 02:35 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2003-07-17 02:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-17 03:05 pm (UTC)