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timepiececlockWHY? WHY? Why is that necessary?
*Warning: loss of soul or heart attack is not my responsibility.
EDIT: It's like some sick masochistic urge. I keep going back to the link, watching for a few seconds, then shrieking like a ten year old girl and exiting out the window in a hurry. Make it go AWAY! It's too horrible.
EDIT 2: I wish my parents weren't visiting relatives in Northern California right now. I think I need a hug. From my mom.
*Warning: loss of soul or heart attack is not my responsibility.
EDIT: It's like some sick masochistic urge. I keep going back to the link, watching for a few seconds, then shrieking like a ten year old girl and exiting out the window in a hurry. Make it go AWAY! It's too horrible.
EDIT 2: I wish my parents weren't visiting relatives in Northern California right now. I think I need a hug. From my mom.
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no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 08:22 am (UTC)ARGH!!!
It's EVIL. It doesn't even have sound effects. It's so...SILENT. AND EVIL.
I keep thinking that, since I know what to expect now, it won't freak me the frak out. But it does. It does, each and every time.
I know. It's a masochistic cycle where you watch it, freak out, quit, then repeat process. The man freaks me out, but the woman freaks me out too. I feel like they wanted to eat me and drink my blood and they knew that I knew it. And they know that I know that they know that I know it. I actually stayed once and got through about 4 pairs... the latter ones are a little less disturbing than the first two pairs, but MAN, talk about freaky. I couln't stay any longer than 4 rounds.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 08:45 am (UTC)Apparently, Eight would very much like to suck Five off. And not waste a drop.
EWWWWWWWWWWW.
It never rains, but it pours, yeh?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 08:49 am (UTC)Click. Do not click. It's up to you.
*EG*
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 08:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 09:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 09:45 am (UTC)Logical Consequences
Good post-movie reunion scenario, spot-on dialogue, and some nice descriptive language in the prose. And it features the Doctor treating everyday individuals to his undivided, child-like attention, which is wonderful, imho.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 10:57 am (UTC)The Doctor waggled an index finger. "Plenty of time yet for that, Grace! And I should know."
The dialogue really feels like it fit the movie characters. And Eight's endearing as always. I love the "to jailbreak or not to jailbreak" discussion.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 08:25 pm (UTC)Eight needs more fanfic!
You might also like Always Walking Away. It's not entirely the delightful, light-hearted wonder Logical Consequences is, but it has moments. It's interesting, and well written. However, I disagree with the ending.
The audio-play (or whatever one calls it) "Chimes of Midnight" is one of the best DW episodes I've ever heard or seen. Dramatic, well-directed (did you know that audio-whatevers actually have directors? Weird), but most importantly, well-written.
What sucks is that it's all old news to the other Whofen. All the Fourth Doctor episodes have thirty years of meta already written -- all opinions and possible insights have been duly expressed, and re-expressed. And everybody listened to/talked up the audio-stories out of desperation for new Who, so...
*pouts*
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 08:42 pm (UTC)Hmmm. I'm not sure how I feel about the ending. Which part do you disagree with?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 09:40 pm (UTC)If he was visiting her as a friend, why not continue? If he finally realized that she wouldn't come along, and decided not to try any more, wouldn't he have toss of a quick "Grace, dear, don't wait up next New Years"? If it was just about getting into her pants, well... that's too absurd to contemplate.
Also, Grace doesn't strike me as the type who'd mope, or pine, or whatever she does at the end there. They saved the world, and had some good times. I can't imagine her putting off her New Years plans for the rest of her bloody life once she realizes that that chapter of her live is at an end.
If the writer hadn't been attached to her bitter ending, she could have had something lovely, more in character, and bittersweet instead. A nice goodbye scene, parting as friends & wishing each other well, or summat.
You know?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 09:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 09:59 pm (UTC)I think I might have liked it if after they slept together he did keep coming back, but that was the catalyst that caused their relationship to be one of purely friendship. That might be less romantic, but it would give closure of a kind, and realistically she'd have her own life like you said. She's not the waiting type.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 10:07 pm (UTC)Hah! Yes. You hit the nail right on the head there.
I think I might have liked it if after they slept together he did keep coming back, but that was the catalyst that caused their relationship to be one of purely friendship. That might be less romantic, but it would give closure of a kind, and realistically she'd have her own life like you said. She's not the waiting type.
I like that idea. I just didn't see the reason for killing their friendship like that. And as for romance, I don't think Grace's the type to necessarily see good sex as anything more than good sex, unless explicitly stated.
It felt a bit like the author was in love with the bitter ending she had in mind, and tweaked the characterization to match it. For whatever reason.
Wish there was more Eight fic.
*craves*
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 10:19 pm (UTC)http://www.fanfiction.net/s/387274/1/
Thought you'd like to know. Can't testify to its quality, though, I'm in the midst of reading it at the moment...
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 10:55 pm (UTC)Bohemian Rhapsody
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6493/1/
Delightful! Chalked full of delight.
Sex-Ed
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6536/1/
Heh! Heheheheheh...
Reunion
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/387299/1/
A neat, multi-chaptered story, wherein the Master is actually scary!
Manifestation
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/692265/1/
Interesting. A bit odd, though. Probably because I'm not familiar with the canon it references.
Must go on a reviewing binge later.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-12 10:57 pm (UTC)a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-13 09:39 am (UTC)nice 9 fic I found: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2431366/1/
It has Nine interacting mentally with all his previous incarnations. To be honest I couldn't appreciate most of it, not having watched the other ones, but I did enjoy the Eight conversation, as it addresses a little of what we've been speculating about-- Eight's role in the Time War. Though I wish it could have been developed and explored a bit more.
On just general thought squee regarding Eight and regenerations and stuff, every time I think about the whole Time War and that fact that Eight either regenerated during the last battle or regenerated some time after the war (because in "Rose" he checked Nine image in the reflection and was surprised)... I keep thinking how sadly ironic it is. You'd mentioned before the tragedy of how Eight's gentle, almost innocent-seeming nature must have gotten warped and damaged by the time war and that's why Nine is so bitter. But I was thinking now that in a way it makes sense... if Eight was a passionate/romantic/ incarnation of the doctor (and I mean romantic in the literary sense as well as feelings wise)... then it's almost like that makes him more suspectible to dramatic acts, like sacrificing his entire race to stop the time war. Like, the more innocent he appears and the more he seems delighted by life...the more extreme the transformation. And he had a sort of Byronic look... meanwhile Nine is the one who actually gets stuck with all the Byronic angst.
Everyone's been saying that, emotionally, Nine is the transition Doctor. And I can't help but think that makes more and more sense-- but only half of it. I think Eight and Nine are both two halves of the same transition. If Eight was the one who fought the time war, then he's the one that made the jump to "killer". Which, given that he was so delighted with simple existence, is such irony. what a 180-- from one extreme to the other. He was the one who decided to martyr-dize (is that a word?) Gallifrey and the Time Lords. He was the last of the old school doctors, and Nine is the first of the post-"killer" doctors, the two of them being the transition. I don't know how often people were killed in past adventures of the Doctor, but I'm assuming that the time war and everything after is what really made him the "killer" that Margaret Slytheen recognized in him in Boomtown.
Gah. I think I'm repeating myself. Does any of this make sense?
It's just speculation, but I think that when the Doctor stops the Daleks (and he must!) the last episode once and for all, it will be ending what Eight started-- not of the conflict (because that started with earlier Doctors), but the battle that ends the conflict. And hopefully Ten will be more at peace internally than Nine was. Nine's been the Doctor in his coping phase. I'm hoping that next week's episode gives closure to that, and that Ten doesn't feel perpetually angry and lost the way Nine seems to. If Nine is the empty child left outside in the cold like it's hinted in episode 9, and Nine's time ends just as he finds his home with Rose and Jack, then maybe 10 is the result of what happens afterward, when he's not the lost child anymore. Maybe he'll be more at peace with himself and accepting of the past.
Or maybe Ten will be three times as angsty and a bitchy prick to boot. o.O Who knows. Now I have to sleep!
Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-13 10:08 pm (UTC)nice 9 fic I found: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2431366/1/
It has Nine interacting mentally with all his previous incarnations. To be honest I couldn't appreciate most of it, not having watched the other ones, but I did enjoy the Eight conversation, as it addresses a little of what we've been speculating about-- Eight's role in the Time War. Though I wish it could have been developed and explored a bit more.
Thanks for the rec!
It did feel a bit quick, but I suppose that fits within the time-constraints of the situation, and there's enough to it to make the resolution work. Watching him rough himself up like that was quite disturbing, but that just made the less antagonistic parts of the exchange ("How do you deal with it?" he whispered roughly) all the more effective. I went from shifting anxiously in my seat, to staring at the screen, to wanting to cry at the end there.
To paraphrase the Brigadier: Poor man. All of them.
The ferry scene with the Fourth Doctor packs a great big punch if one has seen "Genesis of the Daleks." And I have, and... ouch. If you don't mind spoilers, I'll go into it....
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The Doctor is culpable for the Time War in more than one incarnation.
In Genesis of The Daleks, the TimeLords send Four back in time to the planet where the Daleks were genetically engineered, just prior to their creation. They want him to prevent the Daleks from being created, or change the course of their development enough so that they don't pose as great a threat to the future.
You know the little, squid-like creature that was inside the pepperpot in "Dalek"? It was a genetically engineered mutation of the original inhabitants of the planet. They were the by products of scientific experiments meant to aid the winning of a war that was being fought. Anyway, lots of stuff happens (it's a very well written ep!), including a conversation between the scientist who created the Daleks and the Doctor about the morality of preventing a "virus" from existing, but in the end the Doctor has a bomb hooked up to the sort of "nursery" room of the genetic mutations.
"...maybe earlier, some other person had a chance to wipe out the enemy before they even were the enemy, but that person didn't do it. Perhaps that person is responsible. And someone else had a chance to release a virus that could have decimated the enemy, but they held back. Maybe it's their fault. Who's really responsible, eh?"
And that's *exactly* what Four did, you see. He had the Dalek's lives in his hands--literally, he was holding wires hooked up to the bomb--and he said, "But have I the right?" And he doesn't do it. He flinches. The creatures inside the pepperpots were sentient beings, and he didn't want to commit genocide. So, in a way, Nine should have been kicking Four's ass for putting his own ideals, and his peace of mind first.
For the way it explores themes of responsibility and suchlike, it is really quite an ingenious little fic.
(comment was too lengthy, so it's continued below...)
Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-13 10:19 pm (UTC)Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-13 10:10 pm (UTC)Good point, and I'm almost certain he intended it to be self-sacrifice, as well. Perhaps he even saw it mostly as self-sacrifice. The fact that he thought he had the right, or the necessity, to make the that choice for his entire species as well is... hm, interesting. Suppose he thought they'd end up wiped out anyway if the war continued, only the rest of the universe would wind up being destroyed, too? So it was better to sacrifice what would have died anyway to save the rest?
If Eight was the one who fought the time war, then he's the one that made the jump to "killer". Which, given that he was so delighted with simple existence, is such irony. what a 180-- from one extreme to the other.
I know they aren't canon, but it's even more shocking to think about while listening to the audio-whatevers, but mainly "Seasons of Fear." Due to a clusterfuck of the timeline, a man tells the Doctor that he killed him, or rather that he *will* kill him, and betrayed his whole world to destruction, but Eight keeps trying to appeal to his decency. He's even sympathetic to the bastard: "Time piles on top of him and kills everything good. Nobody should have to endure that." And when his companion suggests ways of getting rid of the man (We could shoot him, Doctor! Or stab him. Or throw him off a parapet!), he's horrified, even after she explains that she was just joking.
"Were you?" he says solemnly.
She's all ashamed, and says, "I only said it because I knew you wouldn't do it."
Like Genesis of The Daleks, it gains a bit of power within the context of canon as established by the 2005 series.
Gah. I think I'm repeating myself. Does any of this make sense?
Absolutely! And it's damn good meta, too.
It's just speculation, but I think that when the Doctor stops the Daleks (and he must!) the last episode once and for all, it will be ending what Eight started-- not of the conflict (because that started with earlier Doctors), but the battle that ends the conflict. And hopefully Ten will be more at peace internally than Nine was. Nine's been the Doctor in his coping phase. I'm hoping that next week's episode gives closure to that, and that Ten doesn't feel perpetually angry and lost the way Nine seems to. If Nine is the empty child left outside in the cold like it's hinted in episode 9, and Nine's time ends just as he finds his home with Rose and Jack, then maybe 10 is the result of what happens afterward, when he's not the lost child anymore. Maybe he'll be more at peace with himself and accepting of the past.
I sincerely hope so. I think the way it was set-up, with CE only being signed on for one series, I think this series was meant to be the darkest, in order to deal with the fallout, so that later series could move the character into a healthier place.
Or maybe Ten will be three times as angsty and a bitchy prick to boot. o.O Who knows. Now I have to sleep!
What's pathetic is that, from my experience with Four & Eight, I'll probably end up instantly liking Ten a whole bloody lot, even if he is a bitch.
Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-13 10:30 pm (UTC)That's what I was trying to get at! There's an arrogance in Nine that says he's decided he did have the right or necessity to decide for his whole race... but he wasn't the one who actually did it, so it Eight must have had that arrogance too.
For the Doctor's sake, I truly hope that it was the case that Gallifrey would have had to die anyway in the long run. That at least absolves him a little of hastening the process.
Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-14 02:19 am (UTC)Actually, I think that arrogance has been there from the beginning. He simply wasn't in a situation to make the choice before the Time War. Arrogance seems to be his most Gallifreyan trait apart from his brains -- the presumption that they know what's best for the universe, and that they therein have the right to decide for everyone, is quite ingrained in their culture. In that sense, he is a product of his society, even if he disagreed with their isolationist tendencies in interference.
They do presume to call themselves the Lords of Time, after all. Can you imagine? Claiming supreme dominion over an essential part of the entire universe. And then putting restrictions on its use, and enforcing them simply because they could, because they believed that they knew best, or that their power justified its use.
It's kind of interesting, actually. Does having the power to do something give one the right? and all that.
Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-14 02:22 am (UTC)Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-14 02:27 am (UTC)Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-14 02:41 am (UTC)But didn't you say that he was faced with the decision before with the Daleks and thought he didn't have the right to commit genocide?
Arrogance seems to be his most Gallifreyan trait apart from his brains -- the presumption that they know what's best for the universe, and that they therein have the right to decide for everyone, is quite ingrained in their culture. In that sense, he is a product of his society, even if he disagreed with their isolationist tendencies in interference.
Definitely.
Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-14 02:55 am (UTC)Point. *contemplates* So what makes the two situations different? Well, in Genesis of The Daleks, it wasn't a decision between allowing the universe to be destroyed or committing genocide. It was a choice between leaving the future alone, or stepping in to change it. And the future, as he knew it, wasn't so bad. The Daleks were manageable, as far as he could see.
He even tells Sarah, when she calls him on flinching from his purpose, that peace treaties and alliances have been formed between species that otherwise might have fought each other, because of Dalek aggression.
So, the existence of the universe had to hang in the balance for him to go as far as he did later.
Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-14 03:03 am (UTC)...perhaps I shouldn't, though.
Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-14 03:04 am (UTC)Re: a rec for you too, and general random late night thoughts
Date: 2005-06-13 10:32 pm (UTC)